[Somaroton]

My parents and many other people born and raised in USSR often say that life was easy back then: yeah, you couldn't travel abroad, criticise authorities in public or do something like that, but you were rather confident in the future (like you wouldn't lose you job or something like that). I don't want to discuss whether it was true or this are just consequences of soviet propaganda; instead I have a question for you: is it acceptable to exchange freedom for comfortable life? Would you ever choose a "golden cage" concept for you if it was possible?

[quetzalcoatl]

You won't be getting that choice.

Freedom must constantly be purchased - not by undying vigilance, but by money. Realistic options are constrained, so that it becomes increasingly difficult to exercise them without laying out cash.

Freedom means dominion over one's self. Dominion is the power to exercise control. Control is a function of money. Indeed it's the ultimate purpose of money to distribute power over others - including the power to exercise control over your own fate.

[SolarCross]

True freedom comes from the triumph over fear and craving that which the sages call enlightenment. Only the enlightened person is free. Comfort or deprivation, obedience or defiance have nothing to do with it.

[Drlee]

So Taxizen, do you think that enlightenment may lead one to conclude that life in a gilded cage is not so bad after all?

I do not think that the two terms are mutually exclusive.

I think it is possible to be quite comfortable and not feel particularly free. A wealthy Saudi has luxury but no ability to govern his own life.

A hobo has considerable freedom but little comfort.

I agree with Quetzalcoatl with one caveat. It is possible to declare at least a nominal freedom from money. I know a bunch of people who have done just that. It is a hard life sometimes but, in the end, quite livable.

[Andrea_Chenier]

Freedom can't feed my family. Hence, socialism > freedom

That is if you formulate the question the way you did.

[Joe Liberty]

... instead I have a question for you: is it acceptable to exchange freedom for comfortable life? Would you ever choose a "golden cage" concept for you if it was possible?

I wouldn't choose it, no. People throughout history have chosen to die rather than be kept "comfortable" in cages, so there is something in the human spirit that desires liberty. Believe it or not I've actually heard the argument that slaves had it easy in the American South, since they didn't have to worry about where their next meal would come from, or how they were going to pay the rent. Sounds like a parody, but those people exist.

I do know a couple of people who would gladly give up their freedom for the comfort of being taken care of by somebody else. I think, though, that's primarily due to the fact that they take what freedom they do have for granted, it's never been truly threatened so they don't really understand its worth.

[Dagoth Ur]

As though the Soviet Union were a cage.

I'm more trapped by poverty in this supposed free land than basically every non-gulaged Soviet citizen. Money does not buy power, property buys power. Money is simply a oddly strong paper chain that keeps me working a job I hate and in a place I hate. Well at least I have the paper chain though, without that you aren't even considered human.

I reject the whole premise of this thread as it suggests that the west is free for anyone but the well-off.

[Atlantis]

It is weird that people equate the materialistic treadmill with freedom.

[SolarCross]

It is weird that people equate the materialistic treadmill with freedom.

What do you think is freedom?

[Dagoth Ur]

Actual autonomy. That is NOT alienation and poverty.

[Godstud]

Americans trade their freedom, for security, more and more, every year. The Patriot Act, NSA privacy invasions, etc. are all indicators of this.

America is becoming the gilded cage.

No. I do not think giving up freedom, for comfort, is a good trade-off.

[Atlantis]

What do you think is freedom?

Ultimately it is the freedom of the mind. Unbridled materialism enslaves the mind.

[Joe Liberty]

As though the Soviet Union were a cage.

I didn't say that, but yeah, it kinda was. One of the definitions of a cage is that somebody is forcing you to stay in it, that was a 'feature' of Soviet Russia, was it not?

I'm more trapped by poverty in this supposed free land than basically every non-gulaged Soviet citizen.

I'm guessing since you're intelligent enough to contribute to this forum, you aren't trapped in poverty at all. That's just your current situation. It's only permanent, and thus it's only a trap, if you choose to keep it that way.

Americans trade their freedom, for security, more and more, every year. The Patriot Act, NSA privacy invasions, etc. are all indicators of this.

America is becoming the gilded cage.

Indeed. And it's just getting worse.

What do you think is freedom?

Ultimately it is the freedom of the mind. Unbridled materialism enslaves the mind.

You can have freedom of the mind in a cage. Freedom of the mind is utterly useless without the freedom to express and act upon those thoughts. Also, "unbridled" is a synonym of "free".