[QatzelOk]

While I agree that certain drugs can treat depression, certain other drugs - like cocaine - can bring one on with long-term use.

This cycle of cocaine-depression has taken too many rich celebrities, and I take no solace in their pain. I wish celebrity life didn't exist, and that guys like Robin Williams could have lived a natural, normal life, rather than the turbocharged life of zany emptiness that they were squeezed into by money and their connections.

[Thompson_NCL]

In fairness, I don't think Robin Williams lived the typical "celebrity" life. I suspect that even if he had not gone into show business, he'd still have struggled.

[Zagadka]

I suspect that even if he had not gone into show business, he'd still have struggled.

Well, that is how clinical depression works, so... yea...

[QatzelOk]

In fairness, I don't think Robin Williams lived the typical "celebrity" life. I suspect that even if he had not gone into show business, he'd still have struggled.

While I don't doubt your profound knowledge of clinical psychology and of Robin William's intimate life, it's virtually impossible to say a celebrity would have been a certain way just based on the hype surrounding them.

That hype (and the cocaine that it requires to feed it) are probably what caused his depression, and celebrity-living probably prevented him from learning the normal lessons that humans are supposed to learn in order to grow into a normal healthy adulthood.

This normal path is denied to all celebrities and the wealthy.

[Zagadka]

Robin Williams 'had Parkinson's' when he died
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28796277

Robin Williams was suffering from the early stages of Parkinson's disease at the time of his death, his wife has said.

Susan Schneider said her husband had been sober but "not yet ready to share publicly" his struggles with Parkinson's.

She added that he had also been suffering from anxiety and depression.

...

So, there is that.

That hype (and the cocaine that it requires to feed it) are probably what caused his depression, and celebrity-living probably prevented him from learning the normal lessons that humans are supposed to learn in order to grow into a normal healthy adulthood.

That is a fundamental misunderstanding of how psychological disorders work.

[Solastalgia]

All speculation aside. Here's an awesome hour long conversation between comedian Marc Maron and Williams (from 2010) that I listened to the night that the news broke of his passing. It was sort of surreal hearing him openly talk about really touchy subjects, such as the plagiarism accusations, depression, relapsing (with airline mini alcohol bottles in alaska, leading to large bottles of jack daniels) after 20 years sober, and even touching on a suicidal thought he had in a hotel room, using an odd inner dialogue voice (in the same way his stand up comedy was known for). He does allude to his depression and suicidal thoughts being merely a manifestation of drunkenness. I sure hope that the toxicology reports don't show he was drunk when he finally did this. It would be a shame, in light of what he had to say about this in 2010. If only he had just waited to sober up, to realize that it was just a stupid drunk depressive thought.

http://www.wtfpod.com/podcast/episodes/ ... n_williams

[Solastalgia]

That said, I don't think it's fair to label this as cocaine induced depression, as QatzelOK has done. Williams stopped doing coke in the early '80s, and his more recent relapse after 20+ years sober was exclusively with alcohol (which he went to treatment for). http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2515796

If anything, it could possibly be drinking induced depression, but we really can't say for sure. I think if the toxicology reports come through showing he was, in fact, drunk when he did this, then we can say that's likely the case. Especially considering what he said in that 2010 conversation with Marc Maron.

[Zagadka]

Yea, that or the depression caused the self-medication of hard drugs and alcohol, as is frequently the case.

[Solastalgia]

Yea, that or the depression caused the self-medication of hard drugs and alcohol, as is frequently the case.

Sure, but it doesn't necessarily have to be either or here. He probably did self medicate as an alcoholic (as alluded to in this interview on his relapse - although it doesn't seem like persistent clinical depression, but temporary work-induced depression that caused him to relapse), but the depression then caused by drinking, could have been what did him in at the end (as he alludes in his 2010 talk about drinking induced suicidal thoughts).

[Gletkin]

Liberal media says "Long Live Death!" OMG they're glorifying suicide! People are going to copy Williams and kill themselves too because Liberal Media!!

WHAAT!? I never said Williams killed himself for being a liberal! I said the liberal media was "fawning and glorious, and positive" of suicide! FUCKING LYING LIBERAL MEDIA!

Ok Rush. You did not use Williams' suicide to give an idiotic conjecture...instead you gave a different idiotic conjecture.
Duly noted.

[Zagadka]

Sure, but it doesn't necessarily have to be either or here. He probably did self medicate as an alcoholic (as alluded to in this interview on his relapse - although it doesn't seem like persistent clinical depression, but temporary work-induced depression that caused him to relapse), but the depression then caused by drinking, could have been what did him in at the end (as he alludes in his 2010 talk about drinking induced suicidal thoughts).

Given that he struggled with depression his whole life and the more recent news about Parkinson's, and his financial state... Seems like a justifiably severe situation to contemplate suicide.

[Solastalgia]

Given that he struggled with depression his whole life and the more recent news about Parkinson's, and his financial state... Seems like a justifiably severe situation to contemplate suicide.

The financial state rumors were just that. Rumors. Robin Williams Had No Financial Problems Prior to Death, Says Rep

From listening to him (and his perspective on a lot of life issues), Robin, didn't strike me as the kind of guy that would kill himself because of financial issues, anyways.

Whether or not the parkinsons and drinking had anything to do with this. We can't say. At least, for sure, with the parkinsons. You can't say whether or not that had a bearing on him taking his life. You can only speculate, but never be certain, unless you were him. If the toxicology reports show he was drunk, then you could make a legitimate connection there (especially considering he's had a previous incidence of drinking induced suicidal ideation).

[QatzelOk]

That is a fundamental misunderstanding of how psychological disorders work.

I haven't written anything about how psychological disorders work.

I have written about how tabloid gossip covers up the self-destructive consumption of celebrities.

Can you please take all the "victim of a disease" texts with a grain of cocaine? (I mean salt)

[Zagadka]

I haven't written anything about how psychological disorders work.

"That hype (and the cocaine that it requires to feed it) are probably what caused his depression"

So... yea.

Can you please take all the "victim of a disease" texts with a grain of cocaine? (I mean salt)

With the amount of experience with clinical psychological disorders? No.

[Varax]

This is really affecting me more than any other celebrity deaths I can think of,

This is how I felt about it as well. Usually I’m mostly indifferent when a celebrity dies, most of them have had good lives and I know their deaths are already receiving far more attention than millions of others who die and are quickly forgotten. But Robin Williams’ death bothered me. He was a good guy and by all accounts I’ve heard, more than he needed to be. He was one of those figures that seemed really familiar to me since I was young and I kind of just him for granted. So yeah, when I heard he died I was surprised and upset. I wasn’t really aware of his difficulties with depression and other medical issues so upon reading on it more I guess I shouldn’t have been so surprised. Then finding out about his struggles kind of made it more relatable to me due to my own issues. I think it’s kind of a credit to him that his public persona was so joyous in spite of those issues, which is endearing.

It's not for us to question why people choose to make their exit when they do. We can never know why he made that decision, we can only know that he was always in control. I think he was a great comedian, and I fundamentally respect his decision as he is - ultimately - the master of his own life.

I agree with you here.

I'm surprised at the level of sadness over Williams. For the past fifteen years all he's done is old-people stand up specials and movies that should make any self-respecting human cringe. People were only making fun of his comedy bit for the last five years, that was his only relevance. Then he dies and everyone is like OMG HOOK, ALLADIN, OTHER MOVIE THAT CAME OUT WELL OVER A DECADE AGO!!! Shit's strange and I doubt Williams would have expected this.

Some of his work is hit or miss. I kind of feel a lot of the major American comedic movies with Williams and just in general over the past 10 years or so have been dreadful. Special jeers goes to “Man of the Year” for flat out lying in the trailers for what kind of movie it was supposed to be. But if you look at his overall body of work there’s a lot there and it is pretty impressive. I don’t feel like the crap should wash out the good. Also a lot of people like to be polite and not speak ill of the deceased, focusing more on the positives. Yeah I know this is PoFo, home of the jaded and cynical where we all like to “tell it like it is” but a little bit of tact every so often is not entirely misplaced. If nothing else he was a decent guy, so he should get credit for that.

[Zagadka]

In all of this, I have never heard someone who had personal experience with Williams have anything less than shining admiration for the guy - in this era where celebrities are under a ton of supervision and public exposure. His career may have been flagging for a while, but as a person, people just loved him. That says enough.

[Godstud]

I had a friend who was a bodyguard for Robin Williams. He told about going down to Gas town(Vancouver, BC, Canada) with him and he played Warhammer 40K(he played Eldar for the geeks out there) at the little gaming store there for hours, with his son. he signed autographs and was very nice to everyone who came around. My friend thought, at the time, "What a stupid game.", but then got hooked on it years later, and became an avid collector. Go figure.

Still, as far as Hollywood types go, my pal said he was a good guy to work with.

[Gletkin]

Indeed he supposedly admitted that he did indeed name his daughter "Zelda" after the video game character.

Gene Simmons also chiming in with the Tough Guy approach to depression.

[The Immortal Goon]

There's a tendency to think that you're betraying everyone when you self terminate...But you're telling yourself the opposite. That nobody will have to put up with your bullshit any more.

I wonder if that was amplified for Williams because of his celebrity.

Maybe not. Either way, it's distressing in its own way. I remember watching Mork and Mindy as a kid. I kind of grew up alongside his career.

I don't know what makes me think of this scene. I don't know if it's missing Kubrick (who was supposed to be doing this movie) that amplifies the loss of Williams, or if it's something tragic about Williams explaining how to find a lost humanity...But this scene keeps running through my head:

[youtube]mzsqulKTwO0[/youtube]

[Gletkin]

There's a tendency to think that you're betraying everyone when you self terminate...But you're telling yourself the opposite. That nobody will have to put up with your bullshit any more.

Yep.
Also I believe in some languages the word for "suicide" is literally "self-murder".
So in the case of suicides, the "murderer" and the victim are the one and same person....and some people prefer to remain outraged at the killer, even if it may mean smearing the victim as well.