[Ombrageux]

Hi all,

I need some PoFo knowledge. I'm writing a little piece on the 10 greatest socialists of the English-speaking world. The idea is to give the lie to both Anglo-Saxons and French who seem to believe the English-speaking countries are only capable of neoliberalism. I'm particularly interested in people who have been appropriated by the bourgeois Establishment as heroes while conveniently forgetting their radical socialism.

So far I have (I may abandon some for better people):
* Martin Luther King, Jr.
* George Orwell
* Albert Einstein
* Eugene Debbs
* Mahatma Gandhi
* Noam Chomsky
* Nelson Mandela (?)
* Clement Attlee

The more the merrier. The focus is on the U.S.A., Britain and the Dominions, but others are welcome. Also, please share any decent quotes that unambiguously profess their Socialism (I have good ones for King, Orwell and Einstein).

[fuser]

I will take it as communists and anarchists are not allowed in this list?
How about George Bernard Shaw?

[Ombrageux]

They can be anarchist or communist, but ideally they should have some kind accomplishment the mainstream would recognize regardless of their politics.

[fuser]

How about Manbendra Nath Roy and Emma Goldman for your list, then?

[Lightman]

I don't think most Americans, even politically educated Americans, would recognize Eugene Debs.

[The Immortal Goon]

James Connolly should be on that list.

John Reed might be, though his accomplishment was less political and more explaining other people.

I'll try to think of others.

[grassroots1]

Debs got a million write-in votes and 3.14% of the vote in a national election while he was in prison. That is a pretty recognizable accomplishment. In 1912 he got 6% of the vote which is still the most any socialist candidate has ever received in a presidential election in America.

What about Emma Goldman? She put together the Mother Earth magazine, corresponded with Kropotkin (split with him over his support of Russia's involvement in WWI!), and was an anarchist activist. Her lover and companion Alexander Berkman was imprisoned for the attempted assassination of Henry Clay Frick, who worked directly under Carnegie. She was imprisoned numerous times for her beliefs.

What about Big Bill Haywood? He came from a union background and became a founding member of the Industrial Workers of the World. He was also imprisoned for his beliefs and then fled to Russia.

Also the prominent members of the People's Party were extremely anti-elite and united with labor unions on a couple different occasions, often to their own detriment.

America has a rich history of labor struggle!

[Lightman]

Debs got a million write-in votes and 3.14% of the vote in a national election while he was in prison. That is a pretty recognizable accomplishment. In 1912 he got 6% of the vote which is still the most any socialist candidate has ever received in a presidential election.

I don't mean to diminish Debs at all; I was responding to Ombrageux saying, "They can be anarchist or communist, but ideally they should have some kind accomplishment the mainstream would recognize regardless of their politics," and "I'm particularly interested in people who have been appropriated by the bourgeois Establishment as heroes while conveniently forgetting their radical socialism." I actually find Debs a deeply admirable figure; I just don't think he quite fits into Ombrageux's specifications.

[grassroots1]

Oh I see... I missed that second thing you quoted. Seems most of the people I mentioned don't qualify, then.

[Paradigm]

I'll subdivide by type of socialism.


Marxist/Revolutionary

Daniel DeLeon
Big Bill Haywood
John Reed
Helen Keller
Stokely Carmichael
Angela Davis
Huey Newton


Democratic/Revisionist

Eugene Debs
Albert Einstein
Bertrand Russell
John Dewey
George Orwell
James Connolly
Martin Luther King
Woody Guthrie


Libertarian/Anarchist

Emma Goldman
Noam Chomsky
Murray Bookchin
Lucy Parsons
David Graeber
Joe Hill

I don't mean to diminish Debs at all; I was responding to Ombrageux saying, "They can be anarchist or communist, but ideally they should have some kind accomplishment the mainstream would recognize regardless of their politics," and "I'm particularly interested in people who have been appropriated by the bourgeois Establishment as heroes while conveniently forgetting their radical socialism." I actually find Debs a deeply admirable figure; I just don't think he quite fits into Ombrageux's specifications.

That qualification seemed to be more of a preference than a requirement. In that vein, I think Helen Keller, Albert Einstein, and Martin Luther King are some of the biggest on that front. I also remember when I saw a presentation by Patch Adams(yes, the guy they based that god-awful movie on). He began his talk by casually mentioning his desire to end market capitalism.

[The Immortal Goon]

Jack London is another one!

[Tainari88]

Aw, you stole my contribution TIG...lol.

How about Upton Sinclair?

Vanessa Redgrave the oscar winning actress is definitely a commie.

I heard Lucille Ball was a member of the Communist party but sure changed her tune. Her grandfather or Uncle or someone was one too. Lol.

Charlie Chaplin would have been a commie but he said or someone said he was such a tightwad he did not want to pay the quota every year to be a card carrying member.

Robert Owen. The Scottish man. Definitely a socialist.

A lot of artists in the 1940's were socialists. Let me look some up for you.

[grassroots1]

Charlie Chaplin! What a good one to fill Ombrageaux's purposes too.

Link to the greatest speech in the world.

[Tainari88]

Found two more that are stellar writers:

Democratic Socialists:

Ernest Hemingway

John Steinbeck

[Quantum]

Saul Bellow
W. E. B. Du Bois
Paul Robeson
Kurt Vonnegut

[grassroots1]

I hope we can see this when you're done with it, Omb.

[Orestes]

Jack London is another one!

Eh, I'd be cautious here, I think London could be more apropriately described as Third Positionist, once you look closer.



I would add:

J. B. S. Haldane
J. D. Bernal
H. G. Wells (altough he too had a slight rightist slant with the eugenics thing)

[Pants-of-dog]

Tommy Douglas.

He is basically credited with public health care in Canada.