[Decky]

Construction worker could be (oddly enough) anyone who works in constuction. Labourer is a term for a unskilled construction worker (as anyone with an adult grasp of the English language would know), i.e. anyone on site who isn't either management, security or a tradesman).

I never mentioned people in the countryside or peasents. Dagoth was the one who bough that up and is now accusing me of being a Maoist for stating the othodox Marxist opinion that people selling their labour for a wage working in the building trade are members of the Prolatariat.

[Rei Murasame]

Yes, but what Dagoth is saying is that the title 'labourer' is not in the same tree of etymology as the title 'worker' is.

It may simply be that British English differs from everyone else on this for some reason, but the impression I get is that 'worker' is a newer term than 'labourer' is, and so the word 'labourer' (and 'builder', for that matter) remains attached to a lot of peasant baggage which people associate with it. But I hadn't thought about the doctrinal importance of disambiguating them until just now.

[Dagoth Ur]

No its not complicated Decky. The only issue here is that laborer means nothing here. You may call construction site workers laborers but that has no meaning anywhere outside your shores. The only way laborer is used over here is as an diminutive of worker. But again lets keep acting like this disagreement is more than you being petty about a term used only by the British (and those unfortunately taught the tongue by the English).

At any rate Rich certainly wasn't describing a laborer as you mean it when he spoke of Ancient Rome.

EDIT:
lol except that carpenters, electricians, plumbers, etc are known by their trades on site. Big surprise that you have problem understanding a term basically only Americans and Canadians use (coincidentally being the analogue to laborer apparently). A construction worker is the one who digs and hammers and operates the deadly dangerous stuff. Also now I'm saying peasants are country people? This is America, we don't have peasants.

DOUBLE-EDIT:
Yeah Rei gets it. Laborer reads like Peasant in America. *cue Decky lamenting Colonials despite the fact that we now run his country's show*

[Plaro]

As far as I can tell in terms of economic distinction of people in economy.

Blue-collar worker (people who physically produce stuff)
There are unskilled workers (pickup this heavy back and move it there and watch your back, flip the burger, retail, waitress?)
Then skilled workers (crane operators, welders, carpenters, nurses)
Then there are managers/team leaders (Dude in a factory that looks after the workers for da boss)
Then there are self-employed (landscapers, house painters, they might have workers under them, a step from being a manager)

Blue-collar worker (pencil pushers, intellectual work and people who organize for shit to be done)
Manual intellectual work clerk (like secretaries, call centre operators, bookkeeprs, professor assistance, lab worker,)
Educated Clerks (law-firm clerks, architect drafters, government inspectors, civil-servants, teachers, IT engineers like rancid, doctors perhaps?)
Clerk Managers (people who rise in corporation and government positions in civil service)
Self-employed (accountants, small firm law businesses, inventors, starting up small fry entrepreneurs, small IT development groups.

Academia/high education (intelligentsia living in a bubble of their own and inventing and researching)
Professors, researchers, doctors.
Recognized and highly esteemed researchers, scientist, doctors and deans, writers.

Arts (inter connected with academia, hipsters in general)
Actors, painters, radio host
Directors, producers, editors, playwright

Sport
Sportsman (people who kick a ball for a living and get payed a ton of money for it)
Coaches

Military
Soldier, Sargent
Lieutenant
General
and so on



Then there is the big shots, the so called 'capitalist'.
CEO's, investors, bankers, big business share holders, people who made to of money on inventions and intellectual property, eating on gold.

Anyways that is the best I can come up with, in characterization so far.

[Dagoth Ur]

That's a lot of writing for something much simpler. Steals to live = Lumpenproletariat, Works to live = Proletariat, Lives equitably between owned property and work = Small/Petite Bourgeoisie (and upper echelons of labor aristocracy), Lives off owned property = Big/Haute Bourgeoisie

[Plaro]

But what about academics and artist? Where would you put them?

Also I just want to add to my list

Farmers are self-employed skilled workers.

[Dagoth Ur]

Academics usually live off their teaching wages so proletarian. I mean percentage wise how many academics are actually known for it? I'm assuming the figure is very low. Artists likewise are vary rarely able to live as artists and those that do more often mooch off of others than provide for themselves through art, so lumpenproletariat in their case. But assuming they are successful both are petite-bourgeosie as long as their property (ie their art/scholastic importance) is worth anything to anyone. It really is all about where the money comes from, not so much what you actually do to earn it.

[Plaro]

But academics and artist usually have different mentalities and outlooks on the world due to their line of work and lifestyles, then labourers in factories. So how do you reconcile that.

[Plaro]

Really how so Pot? You seem to know better.

[Potemkin]

You're now just defining and redefining words. Where has all the irrational prejudice and hate-filled bigotry gone?

[Plaro]

I fail to follow.....

[Dagoth Ur]

@Plaro: The proletariat isn't the best class because of mindset, or uniformity, or whatever but rather because we're the only class that can solve the crisis of capitalism. We're not filthy moralists.

[Potemkin]

I fail to follow.....

Indeed....

[Plaro]

It would be better if you put more then just one liners and joined the discussion. Otherwise you are just being obtuse and party pooper Pot. If you have something to add to discussion then add, otherwise what is the point of your insults? I though you are better then petty ego games and trolling. lol

@Plaro: The proletariat isn't the best class because of mindset, or uniformity, or whatever but rather because we're the only class that can solve the crisis of capitalism. We're not filthy moralists.

Jee people, so much for class snobbery, I feel like I just walked into a place where I'm not supposed to be.

I just wanted to join in the discussion, whatever guess I will be leaving now, enjoy your "proletariat is the best and will save the world from capitalism" snobbery thread.

[Potemkin]

I though you are better then petty ego games and trolling. lol

Shows how little you know, Plaro.

[Plaro]

Whatever Pot. You are always free to impart your wisdom upon us the ignorant.

[Dagoth Ur]

I wasn't even trying to be snide. This is basic Marxism. It's not some vulgar Workerism we support but the end of Capitalism and the only available vehicle is the proletariat.

[Plaro]

You know Pot, I know what you are thinking, yes you are more intellectually developed then me and better read and I remember long ago you called me intellectually cheap (lol). But that is the thing, you have elitist complex and you are very uptight even though it might not be visible at first because of your sense of humour. Ironically you possess the same qualities of class snobbery that you complain about the high aristocratic ungrateful class in British society has.

But I tell you what you are missing, and it is most vital. You are missing ability to creatively think and free to put everything aside and just explore fully for yourself. You have build a wall of intellect, but it is useless unless you dive into it and explore it yourself through and through. That is redefine it, come back later redefine and explore it again and again, until it is tested and tried like a good olde shovel. I do not think I even seen you have an original thought, it is always backed by a person you have read and who's dots you have connected very well.

You miss the fun, joy and lightheartedness that intellectual work or best work is preformed in.

PS. And you believe in already proven failed ideology.

End of rant
Plaro

[layman]

No, they weren't. The work was done by slaves, and the Roman proletariat were basically dole scum.

I like that description of the population of Rome itself. I found it fascinating how lazy they actually were. I am not sure about the rest of the Italian provinces, and by that time, the rest of the 'empire'.

[Heisenberg]

I can't believe I just read a two-page long argument about whether "labourers" and "workers" are the same thing, when it came down entirely to British vs American customs. Who fucking cares? We may as well be arguing over the People's Front of Judea and the Judean People's Front...