[South Korean]

Well, Orwell's stance on Socialsim and Communism is very complicated. He considers himself a socialist, but many of his books argue against communism and socialism in general. In fact, his two major books, Animal Farm and Nineteen-Eighty-Four are all against communism. He's definitely not a capitalist considering his comments and views, but maybe not a socialist. Another issue here is the defining line between socialism and communism or even extreme socialism. Is he an extreme socialist or even socialist? This topic can go on endlessly.

[Ombrageux]

He considered himself a Democratic Socialist.

[Decky]

He's definitely not a capitalist considering his comments and views, but maybe not a socialist.

No. He put his life at risk fighting for the socalists in spain he was a member of a socalist party, what more do you need?

[Potemkin]

No. He put his life at risk fighting for the socalists in spain he was a member of a socalist party, what more do you need?

Not ratting on his former comrades to the CIA and MI5 might be a good start.

[Wolfman]

In fact, his two major books, Animal Farm and Nineteen-Eighty-Four are all against communism.

Actually, they were against the USSR, which he saw as being thoroughly not Communist because of the use of what he called 'doublethink'.

[DanDaMan]

The Brilliant but Confused Radicalism of George Orwell

Mises Daily: Thursday, June 24, 2010 by Jeff Riggenbach
http://mises.org/daily/4513

[The Clockwork Rat]

Potemkin, I hadn't heard about this 'ratting out'. Could you tell me more?

A small point of interest, my father visited the house on Raasay, just off the Isle of Skye, in which Orwell wrote 1984.

[Khalq]

The idea of Doublethink probably came from the complete misunderstanding of dialectics by the liberals.

By the way, was Orwell not an anarchist?

[grassroots1]

Animal Farm and Nineteen-Eighty-Four are all against communism.

I wouldn't say they are against communism in general, as much as 1984 warns against a totalitarian society and Animal Farm recounts the events after the Russian revolution. They both seem to me to be important warnings.

[The Clockwork Rat]

Also, isn't the state in 1984 fascist rather than communist? I haven't read it recently, nor do I remember the details clearly.

[Ombrageux]

TCR - It could be construed to be any totalitarian society. "Big Brother" and the arch-rebel Goldstein clearly represent Stalin and Trotsky. Orwell was always a man of the radical Left, but for that very reason spends more time explicitly discrediting Stalinism over Nazism ("good people" on the Left were not liable to romanticizing Hitler..).

[Wolfman]

The idea of Doublethink probably came from the complete misunderstanding of dialectics by the liberals.

My reading of Orwell's explanation makes me think otherwise, since he explained it as holding two contradictory views as both being right simultaneously.

Also, isn't the state in 1984 fascist rather than communist? I haven't read it recently, nor do I remember the details clearly.

Yes and no. The society in 1984 was based around 'Engsoc' meaning 'English Socialism', but the society itself was based more around totalitarianism then Socialism. Kind of like how Nazism claimed to be Socialist, but wasn't.

[The Clockwork Rat]

Hitler's just too easy to 'construe' as evil.

In that sense his work doesn't seem too deep. I'll give 1984 another read soon, 451 was a good read, and I'd like to be able to compare them.

[grassroots1]

TCR - It could be construed to be any totalitarian society. "Big Brother" and the arch-rebel Goldstein clearly represent Stalin and Trotsky. Orwell was always a man of the radical Left, but for that very reason spends more time explicitly discrediting Stalinism over Nazism ("good people" on the Left were not liable to romanticizing Hitler..).

Right, I took 1984 and Animal Farm to be similar if only in the sense that their intention seems to be to, as you say, discredit and warn against a degeneration of socialism into totalitarianism.

My reading of Orwell's explanation makes me think otherwise, since he explained it as holding two contradictory views as both being right simultaneously.

Or that the truth changes with the official party line. When Oceania declared war on a new enemy, they had always been at war with that enemy and the other superpower was always their ally.

I've never read 451, TCR. I realize that's blasphemy.

[The Clockwork Rat]

^ Neither had I until 5 days ago.

[peterm1988]

"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I know it."

That was Orwell in '46. He was undoubtedly a socialist, but of that particularly British kind - not quite the bread-and-butter socialism of the unions but not theoretically obsessed like many continental socialists.

Also, I think his entire doublethink thing was about holding two contradictory views at the same time. In his earlier writings he talks about people who thought Britain and France should stand up to Nazi Germany but were against rearmament to do so. It's more a logical extension of that - people being able to think 2+2=5, even when it needs to equal 4 for practical purposes.

[Vera Politica]

Orwell's political views are closely tied if not completely identified with his views on language. That said, I have always read 1984 not as a critique of a future dystopian society (or a critique of totalitarianism) but as a critique of the (then current) trends in European societies.

[HoniSoit]

Potemkin, I hadn't heard about this 'ratting out'. Could you tell me more?

I presume Potekmin was referring to this episode, which has sharply divided opinions of Orwell on the Left:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archive ... ells-list/

[fuser]

That man worked for IRD says a lot about his allegiance but 1984 is a good read.

[The Immortal Goon]

his two major books, Animal Farm and Nineteen-Eighty-Four are all against communism.

I wouldn't say they were necessarily against communism, as people have said, but opposed to elements in the left. In Animal Farm, for instance, the horror is that the pigs start acting like the farmer. There is no backpeddling to the farmer having actually having been a great guy nor any indication that trying to destroy the capitalistic elements of the farm was anything but just.

You'd probably walk away with a better understanding of him politically if you read Homage to Catalonia.