[kjdore]

I am in no way for Socialism, in fact quite the oppisite. I was just wondering what everyone elses opinions are on the topic. Personally I think it is a incapable method with the amount of people in the United States. It is a noble idea, but in my opinion it is very unrealistic and a very bad idea. I have always had a theory that people are very pecimistic and are always looking at the worste in everything. People appear to have a hard time accepting when things are alright, i mean i know nothing is perfect, but I don't think that is any reason to look for some massive change. How can one justify infringing on someones freedom for the mere fulfillment of some moral concious. Chairity is only chairity when it is given freely, not when its forced upon you. I guess my biggest concern about socialism though, is how can you have no trust in big business but put trust in some corrupt politicians so they can have more power over you. When people start to give up their freedoms and leave all the thinking to people who are "smarter" than us, then you essential give up your right to an opinion or logicical reasoning. What is the incentive in a socialism society to make people thrive to succeed. Being a college student, part of what makes me thrive to success isn't to fill my ambition or further mankind, it is to know I will have a stable happy life. Without the thought of money or stability, why in the world would I bring myself through college when I can just live off other peoples success. The worste part about a mind set such as that, is that not only would I be relying on the government, which gives them more influence, but it would also slow down advancements in the different fields. Everything would be less competetive thus less productive. The more people who decide to take the easy route, the less people are actually making the money to spread around. In the end you have ineffective, inadequit government who will be excedingly difficult to rid ourselves of.

I dont care what your views on socialism are, I would just like to hear some your opinions on the matter. Thank you!

[fuser]

put trust in some corrupt politicians so they can have more power over you.

I can just live off other peoples success.

You really have no clue about socialism. Where are you from by the way??

You have just posted some random anti socialism rhetoric which have nothing to do with socialism at all.

When people start to give up their freedoms and leave all the thinking to people who are "smarter" than us,

do you really think that in present society people are directly involved in decision making procedures rather than bunch of "so called experts of their respective fields."

Everything would be less competetive thus less productive.

Not true at all

I would just like to hear some your opinions on the matter.

My opinion is at least try wikipedia..

[kjdore]

I actually understand socialism pretty well, and in theory it isn't a bad idea. I guess I kind of miss named the topic because it was aimed more towards liberal ideas. But aside from all of that, I have to disagree with you here

Not true at all

Unless you can find me solid evidence to the contrary. A couple things that boost productivity are Competition and Solutions in response to catastrophic events. Also war, but that's not exactly something i would encourage . It seems alot of people are all for Socialism, i've always been for capitalism. And I am just wondering what socialism means to you, how do you imagine a socialist america?

do you really think that in present society people are directly involved in decision making procedures rather than bunch of "so called experts of their respective fields."

Almost forgot to answer this, No i don't think today's society is directly involved and I think that is a flaw in present day government.

[fuser]

A couple things that boost productivity are Competition

Competition for more profit which isn't necessarily means more productivity.

In socialist system worker is working for himself (at least theoretically) which itself is a great motivator. you should browse pofo, you will get many excellent threads dealing with this.

how do you imagine a socialist america?

Have you considered that I may not be an american..........

No i don't think today's society is directly involved and I think that is a flaw in present day government.

Okay, so do you think that, let's say a man who has been trained as a teacher his whole life should have a say in a military decision??

[myrmeleo]

Competition for more profit which isn't necessarily means more productivity.In socialist system worker is working for himself (at least theoretically) which itself is a great motivator. you should browse pofo, you will get many excellent threads dealing with this.

Attempts at socialist regimes have continually proven themselves as significantly less capable of sustained productivity and growth. I'm no libertarian, but i think most leftists would agree that the problem itself is the competition and its negative externalities, not that a socialist country would be somehow more productive.

kjdore, not to be off-putting, but a lot of your points have been raised in a zillion different threads, primarily the Economics and Capitalism subforum. Read through some of those and find something that you think is interesting and post back — just a question like "what do you think of socialism" will just get muddled and probably die pretty quickly. Welcome to the forum.

[fuser]

Attempts at socialist regimes have continually proven themselves as significantly less capable of sustained productivity and growth

Oh really compared to what?? As if capitalist countries have shown an unhindered productivity and growth only in upward direction.

USSR had done much better that others, even in stagnation period growth never was in negative numbers.

i think most leftists would agree that the problem itself is the competition and its negative externalities,

That is what I said .

not that a socialist country would be somehow more productive.

Yes it would be at least theoretically, as I said this before in this thread.

[farzad didehvar]

Personally, I dont know sociolism as an ideology or school of thougth, as some of our previous generation knows that, I know it a useful tool.
Socialism probably could near us to justice plus some other ideas and tools. But sometimes ,Socialism
is far from justice.
In brief, Justice is a matter of School of thougth, and Socialism is a tool which we should use it in different percentages.
Many European countries, practically conciousely or unconciousely do somehow similar by considering Socialism in some percentage, such that this percentage could be changed by time and adoptness to the situation.
By this view, no harm to use it in an equilibrium of different thougths.
In brief:
"Socialism is just a tool for justice, it is not a goal"

[AnthonyLeeScott]

I am not aSocialist nor would I want to be one . Why would I want to be a part of something that is a prerequisite for a dictatorship? Idon't have the answers but I cannot believe that the answer lies in surrendering our freedoms in for the promise of "social equality".

[ped2000]

Totalitarian communism, what most Americans are brainwashed to believe is socialism, provides little profit motive. Although China absolutely wiping the floor with the US is the epitome of ironic for every red blooded capitalist republican living strictly off the socialist goods at their apple pie, hometown Wal-mart and paying for them with their Social Security checks.

But that's a good thing libertarian socialism doesn't provide as strong of a profit motive. We are and have been for a long time to the point that the biggest threat to the global economy is over-production. Second, it is mathmatically impossible to grow indefinitely. So capitalism, or more aptly, mass production, will slowly fail and socialism will flourish. Because it is the stable system.

Then again many of the most important inventions in human history come not from markets, but from socialism. From government grants to university research, space programs and military developments. Capitalism generally capitalizes on the inventions of socialism. BUT it does give incentive to mine natural resources that no one would likely do otherwise. On the other hand it has gotten so out of control that it is now threatening the future of human life though.

Lastly, as this thread shows, the average person is totally oblivious to the degree he is controlled. His instilled narcissism has proven to be the most powerful opiate in the formula. Totalitarian socialists regimes merely play catch up to capitalisms propaganda mechanisms. The real weakness of socialism is that it cannot provide the levels and potentcy of psychological manipulation that the capitalist can.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjP2gHoBLvA

I am not aSocialist nor would I want to be one . Why would I want to be a part of something that is a prerequisite for a dictatorship? Idon't have the answers but I cannot believe that the answer lies in surrendering our freedoms in for the promise of "social equality".

When is the last time you took a vote on any important decisions at the place you work at for a living?

What freedoms do you lose exactly if you hold a share instead of meager but stable labor market wage?