[trombonepolitician]

I've been interested and showing sentiments toward social democracy and left-libertarianism (specifically the steiner-vallentyne and Lib Socialist schools). I'm no anarchist. I do have a few questions on social democracy because it does seem that many average Americans greatly glorify or reject it without giving it much thought in regards to welfare, education, health care, and economic stability.

How is unionization different in Europe than the US? I know answers are different for Nordic and Mediterranean countries. Unions here in the US are often demonized (some points I don't even disagree with) for being interest groups to our federal government

I understand taxes are often higher in Europe, which is understandable, but are they much different in how deductions and credits are calculated? Say, for investment in green energy and it's reward. In countries with income taxes, how are they not an interruption to doing business?

I think, in many countries, the government finances job training and unemployment insurance. How are the unemployed empowered by government to find work while on benefits?

How does decentrallization work in some of the countries? And how is high participation by citizens in democracy ensured?

I might have some more questions later. I thought I'd post this to "socialism" because I consider "Socialism" to range from SD to Anarchist Communism

TBONEP

[Staffan]

Hello!
Im from sweden and I think I dare to say that we are the most social democratic country in the world. Even though the social democrats doesnt have the power at the moment - we still are.

Taxes in the US are about 30% in Sweden they are about 60%. We do however think that we get alot for our taxes. We think that the important thing is not what you have left after tax, but what you have left after paying for healthcare, living, food etc etc. In the US everybody have to worry about filling in their healthcare forms right, but I dont do that. I just live, and when Im sick I just go to a hospital and I know they will take care of me. Living standard isnt just money. Its also that you dont need to worry to much.

Humans are not perfect beeings. Some of the people that are the poorest might deserve it, but even so giving them a little, might reduce their willing to commit crime. I think sweden saves alot of money on that.

Even so, education is free. In the US there might be a huge difference in payment between an engineer and an electrician. In Sweden education is free, so everyone that wants to can become an engineer. As a result there is more engineers - the gap to the electricans arent that big, and its easier for high-tech companys to do business because there is a higher education rate throughout the country.

BUT! The high taxes stop some business. There are some business that just doesnt profit because of the high taxes. So we all pay a price for it, with a little higher unemployment rate then other countries, but I think its worth it. (I have a job )
(Right now we dont have that much unemployment though, but usual we have.
but thats not because we have low unemployment - its because right now everyone else have higher unemployment).

How is participation by citizens in democracy ensured?
Well we have election every 4 years. Free press bla bla bla you name it.

How does decentrallization work?
I dont know. Havent really heard this word before.

[Red Barn]

Greetings, New Comrade Staffan.

We don't have many members from Sweden, though we do seem to have plenty of Social Democrats floating around. Very glad to meet you.

I hope you have the patience to debate our local Right Libertarians. I've noticed that they tend to crumble in the face of simple cheerfulness and good common sense, which would make you a highly valued member of the anti-libertarian faction (which, BTW, is fairly massive, and contains members of pretty much every rational political persuasion).

[Staffan]

Thank you Red Barn!
When I joined theese forums I thought I should be somewhere in the middle because Im pretty much to the right in Sweden.
Here however on a more global scale. I find myself more to the left then most people.
In America there is sort of 30% tax. In Sweden 60%. I guess Im for 50% tax.

One huge difference between Swedes and America I think is just the way we see morale. When I was younger I thought that americans didnt have morale because they didnt have free healthcare. Now I understand that americans do have morale, its just a little bit different. You see christianity as some kind of morale. When I look at religion I just see a theory of how the world was created. When I turned 20 I understood that religion is more then a theory for some people. I thouht they didnt have morale because they didnt have free healthcare. They think I dont have morale because Im not christian.

[trombonepolitician]

Thanks Staffan! Yes you are right, the US has a very different culture and is much more culturally diverse than in Scandinavia. For that reason, it is hard to debate what system works best for everybody here in the US. I think it then will be much more important for different regions in the US to develop different ideas. I think politically I'm to the left of much of the US, however, I still think I'm a progressive conservative. Conservatism is skeptical of change, while progressivism wants to move forward. I think that puts me somewhere around the centre, wanting incremental change, thinking both within and outside of "the box" (our current globally capitalist system).

Also, Red Barn, I've been a bit interested in Libertarian Socialism. Though I still see it as utopian, I like many of it's grassroots democratic tenets. I dunno. Some say I'm a communitarian anarchist, others say I am in fact a Lib socialist, others say in the American sense of the word I'm a "progressive republican." I rather find the whigs to be representative of my views as well.

[Staffan]

Its a little bit of topic, but I dont think USA is more culturally diversed than Sweden. For an example: after the war in Irak we hade more iraqie people seeking asylum in Sweden than in America. Bear also in mind that despite this fact Sweden is a 9 million country and USA a 300 million one...

But as I sad. A little bit offtopic

[trombonepolitician]

I suppose that makes sense. It is questionable the extent that single payer health care would work here in the US though just because we are such a large country.

[voxlashi]

As Staffan highlighted, the determining factor is largely based on big government and welfare initiatives, financed by means of taxes. Some answers to your questions, though, seeing as I'm also Scandinavian:

How is unionization different in Europe than the US?

Norway is a prime example of societal corporatism, which means interest organizations, like labor unions and business organizations are closely connected to the state in policy negotiations. These organizations are typically very large, incorporating a great number of labor unions. This ensures that the interests of both sides of the industry is represented in policy implementation.

How does decentrallization work in some of the countries?

In Norway, decentralization has somewhat decreased the past years, notably by delegating the administration of health care services from county to state level. Primary schools, lesser road construction, cultural services and the likes are delegated to the municipal level. There's also been a surge in integration of municipalities, implying a greater focus on economy and productivity, rather than self-government for minor towns and villages. It should be noted that Norway, having a more dispersed population, is less centralized than Sweden.

And how is high participation by citizens in democracy ensured?

Most participation is ensured by private initiatives, like petitions sent to the municipal council and in some cases to parliament members. Basically, the state isn't directly responsible for upholding participation other than during elections, so this isn't a determinant for the practice of social democracy in Scandinavia, as with most other democracies. People need to take that initiative themselves.

Its a little bit of topic, but I dont think USA is more culturally diversed than Sweden.

Somewhat true, though not entirely. People tend to settle where people like themselves have settled before them, so Iraqi refugees who aren't comfortable with settling in a country in which you'll be gazed upon with suspicion, will look for a more open society. The immigrants are more visible in Sweden, because it's a smaller country. I do believe that the US has more ethnic groups represented, but they're typically more assimilated than in Sweden, and so it might be contested that Sweden is more diversified.