Technocracy outside N.America? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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The solving of mankind’s problems and abolition of government via technological solutions alone.

Moderator: Kolzene

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By nico
#16211
Should technocracy be only in N.America? It's been 70 years since technocracy was officially reconized. In that 70 years a great deal many things have changed. The most hi-tech society on earth the Japanese are not included, why? The only reason I can see is that they lack resources. Now W.Europe has large deposits of coal, and N.Europe has a lot of hydro-power potential. Combined with Russia you would more than enough resources. What about Mercosur (Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay) These nations have huge reserves of oil, coal,etc. Also they have possibly the best hydro-generation possiblities in the world. China is also becoming a international player, frankly by 2015 she will be the world's largest economy. So IMO to limit this engenious to N.America is a bit short-sighted.
By Ocker
#16239
I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on Technocracy, but where is it written that it is for N. America only?

I think you might just find maybe that the majority of Technocrats in here are N. American.

But hey I could be wrong :roll:
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By Yeddi
#16245
from what i've accertained, i'm not an expert either (we need Kolzene here) Technocracy was developed in the US during the Great Depression of the 1930's to solve America's problems. But i think it could quite easily used in all countries, otherwise it would be a very pointless ideology to hold.
By Proctor
#16271
Just to clarify, it is North America specific, as North America is the only region that has sufficiently developed industry and technology to be able to comfortably support it. In a word, it has eliminated scarcity.

But I'm not too sure I agree. I certainly don't see any reason why Japan or Germany couldn't support it, being the most technologically advanced and most industrialised nations of the world respectively (I think).
By Ocker
#16567
Thanks for that Kolzene, I really should get around to reading the Technocract website one day :hmm: .
By A_Technocrat
#16606
Hey Kolzene, maybe it'd be useful to post/write a Technate development plan just for interest. Also, foreign nationals can use it to develop their own technates.
By Justin534
#63369
The United States alone has the resources to feed the entire world at a basic level. Not sure if this is relevant but thought I would add it to the discussion. How is distribution of products and services handled in technocracy? Is it a communist ideology?
By Justin534
#63738
I dont think communism (I refer to marxism and communism interchangeably) is based on a scarcity system. In fact, marxism could work because there is plenty or resources for everyone. True communsim is very different from soviet Communism (Communism with a big C) where everything is state controlled. In fact, in marxism there is no need for money but instead everyone takes what is needed when it is needed. I think that technocracy and communism may share the same idea that scarcity is just an illusion. Any thoughts on this.
By Justin534
#65897
The reason I say this is because when Marx developed his ideas, the processes that caused the North American Price System to collapse due to the unprecidented state of technological abundance that it had achieved had not yet occured. It was unforseen by everyone (except for the predecessors to Technocracy, the Technical Alliance), so there is no way Marx could have understood these processes, or their consequences.


Then perhaps I should restate my original position: I can see communism working because scarcity seems, for the most part, an illusion (regardless of Karl Marx' line of thinking).

As for scarcity being an illusion, it isn't, in most parts of the world. It is a cold, hard fact that must be dealt with by scarcity controls. It is, however, an illusion in North America, and possibly now even some other parts of the world. Until the proper research is done however, that cannot be known. But it is this illusion that feeds a hungry few, and that I intend to wake people up from. If this metaphor seems somewhat Matrix-like, it is no coincidence.


Let me restate myself, scarcity is an illusion on a global scale (assuming all countries has access to all the resources of every other country). For example, the US alone has the resources to feed the entire world on a basic level.

The more I look at it, it almost seems like technocracy is sort of a communism of the new millenium.
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By Mark
#66383
Surely oil is a scarcity? Not just in certain parts but everywhere?
By Justin534
#66408
Surely oil is a scarcity? Not just in certain parts but everywhere?


Oh for sure, oil is scarcity. But we dont NEED oil, we are not technologically dependent on it. The only reason, in my opinion, why we are not driven by alternative fuel sources is because it makes up such a large portion of capitalist economic investment. Whether its useful or not, you take oil away and the economy would collapes. Hell, towards the end of WW2 the germans were very much independent of oil and had many advanced, even by todays standards, alternative fuel technology.

I definately agree and would not call technocracy communism. In fact, I wouldnt call communism communism, and as long as it is called communism it will never succeed. Did that make sense? People have such negative connotations and assumptions about communism that they dont actually assoicate it with what it really is.
By Justin534
#67836
I havent really read anything on Noam Chomsky so I cant really tell you what I think on the subject. However, now that you mention it he sounds like a good person to read up on.
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By Yoshisinn
#78161
China as the potential to achieve a Technate by itself, but I don’t believe that it would be done to eliminate scarcity. If China was to move from a People’s Republic to a Technate, it would be done to maintain the power of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). While China has many shortcomings (massive population and low agriculture output), the CCP leadership, as with all leaderships, has an invested interest in maintaining its position.

It won’t be the Technate envisioned by Technocracy, Inc. it be a “Technate with Chinese Characteristics.”

Let’s compare China and the three Requirement of a Technate:
It must have sufficient natural resources to provide everyone with a high standard of living.
China has an abundance of natural resources and a diverse climate. Most critical of resources it’s possesses are hydroelectric potential (CIA World Factbook) and massive manpower. While it doesn’t necessary provide everyone with a high standard of living in China, it sure has been provide a high standard of living for the US and other countries due to it cheap labor costs. What if these manufactories were converted to supplying the Chinese?

It must have a sufficient level of technology installed to convert these resources into use forms, that will comprise this standard of living.
China’s industrial capacity, while poor compared to Western Nations, is growing rapidly. Its focus on exports, limitation on imports and insistence on self-development in areas of technology (missile and space technology as examples) will ultimately lead to the fulfillment of the second requirement.
China is already predicted to be the world’s largest economy in the coming decades. With them already supplying the world with consumer goods far great than they currently can consume, it’s only a matter of time before their national demand is supplied by their own industries. Something other regions are beginning to lack, as their industrial capacities are moving to China! Worst case, Chinese Communist Party will resort to their old fallback – massive manpower and get it done with brute strength (example – Three Gorges Dam)!

It must have sufficient technically trained personnel to operate this machinery.
China has long history of being ruled by a meritocratic system under the various Dynasties. The
Bureaucracy of the Chinese Empires aided the Emperor in his rule. To become a bureaucrat, one had to pass a series of tests – the high one wanted to achieve, the harder and longer the testing. So historically, China has experience in governing systems based on ability and centralized control.
As with most Communist governments, education has been free to all in China with the nations literacy rate at 86% (CIA World Factbook). They have a vast pool of engineers, technicians and scientists, many employed by the government in various programs (like their Space Program) in order to retain their service so they don’t immigrate overseas.
While the Technocracy, Inc. and the Technical Alliance never envision creating a political vehicle to achieve their goals, the Chinese Communist Party has no ideological qualms about adapting itself in order to survive (from Mao’s communal communism to Deng’s “social market”). The party cadre would be great assist in order to organize and enhance China’s transition. Look that the People’s Republic’s history and you’ll see that virtually all major attempts at development and change relied on the party cadre as the base of the organization (the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution – not that these were very successful).

Other benefits and characteristics that China has going for it:
An existing Armed Services Sequences: from the CIA World Factbook – “People's Armed Police Force (internal security troops, nominally a state security body but included by the Chinese as part of the "armed forces" and considered to be an adjunct to the PLA)”

Possible source of change:
  • The Party Cadre – tired of losing authority to business interests;
  • Rising Unemployment and Increase Disparity between Economy Levels – a return to a class-based society could be viewed as unacceptable;
  • PLA/CCP – unable to stop the demand for democracy, unable to revert back to full communist due to the public acceptance and desire for consumerism; may just side step the issue rather than be consumed by it – converting the Party into the Technocratic system itself or have the Party “guiding” the development of the system while allow limited democracy on “social” issues.

If I could spend an Energy Certificate on where the first Technate would be formed - sorry everyone but I’d spend my on the People’s Republic of China.
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#142107
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