[Omnist Priest]

Initiative is what drives one to vote. The number of people who vote continuously decreases.

Sure many people will work for free, once in a while, if it is for a really good cause. But the economy will not function if it depends on everyone working all year for some cause, from which they cannot see the immediate benefits.

If the country is one big team, who enforces cooperation?
Who is to say that my work is quality work?

To anyone, teamwork is defined as others working for you while you still receive credit.

I know that I would not work hard if I had guaranteed income.

What ever percent of the economy depends on human labor, that is the same percentage that technocracy is communism.

If a communist state were to switch to energy credits and use automation, would this not be technocracy?

What is different?

The government would not differ much from the technocratic sequences, and the standard income would raise.

Initiative in economics is the same in a school, if everyone is given an A, no matter what the effort on the homework, why would students force themselves to study?

I asked several children why they do their homework, all replied that it was because they would be punished if they did not, or that they would lose their privaleges.

Does a technate expect its people to "study hard" on this permanent summer vacation that it offers?

Kolzene if I am missing something please tell me, I want to believe that technocracy can work.

[Mr. Anderson]

Human Motivation to Work in a Technate: Why People Will Work for Free

Read this article. If after reading it you have grievances, please post them and we will try to clear them up.

[Omnist Priest]

I have read it, already. It seems to say that people have a desire to work.

[Omnist Priest]

I am saying that there will always be idiots who just want to party. No matter how good the system is.

In a good public school there are still people who "hangout" on campus when they should be in class, it is not because the education is poor, they could care less. All that matters is fun.

The people who recieve A's in school, are those who push themselves to get a good score, because they understand that all that matters is getting into college so that they can recieve a high paying job, most people do not plan for the future.

Without the incentive to recieve a high paying job and being babied by the ensured income, what will keep people from saying "someone else will do it." ?

Welfare causes the need for more welfare.

[Korimyr the Rat]

I am saying that there will always be idiots who just want to party. No matter how good the system is.

In a good public school there are still people who "hangout" on campus when they should be in class, it is not because the education is poor, they could care less. All that matters is fun.

And aren't those of us who are driven to bigger and better things better off if we could get those lazy, useless bastards out of our way?

The people who recieve A's in school, are those who push themselves to get a good score, because they understand that all that matters is getting into college so that they can recieve a high paying job, most people do not plan for the future.

If that's all that matters to you, I'd almost say you were broken. Hell, I'm busting my ass in school in order to get a medium-low paying job-- when I could just cool my heels on my low-paying disability pension. While the money will be an improvement, it's certainly not why I'm exerting the effort. (If it was money, I could go into a better-paying field.)

[Mr. Anderson]

I am saying that there will always be idiots who just want to party. No matter how good the system is.

In a good public school there are still people who "hangout" on campus when they should be in class, it is not because the education is poor, they could care less. All that matters is fun.

School would be fun. People would be able to study what genuinely interests them! Everyone enjoys doing something which could be contributed to society, whether it would be art or research.

It would be utilizing intrinsic motivation. I guarantee you, everyone would have something they could contribute.

The people who recieve A's in school, are those who push themselves to get a good score, because they understand that all that matters is getting into college so that they can recieve a high paying job, most people do not plan for the future.

They would be no exception in a technocracy, and could pursue what they really want.

Without the incentive to recieve a high paying job and being babied by the ensured income, what will keep people from saying "someone else will do it." ?

Because they could do something they really enjoy. Again, intrinsic motivation. Why do so many programmers continually improve upon Linux for free when they could easily be doing a corporate job and getting many? Why do people volunteer with charities? Why do people do all of these things?

People enjoy doing these things. This is why they do it. In our current system, which discourages this, such activity still occurs. In a technocracy, this would be fostered. Think about what you would do in a technocracy. How would you contribute to society?

I would also like to add that technocracy favors automation and, to be quite frank, it could easily reach the point where very minimal human involvement would be necessary to provide for everyone. A technate could afford to have a bunch of "welfare drones".

Welfare causes the need for more welfare.

I addressed this point, so it is fairly irrelevant.

EDIT: Also, why do people take lower-paying jobs that they love over higher-paying jobs that they hate? Please answer that question for me.

[Omnist Priest]

When a person volunteers in charities, they can see who they are helping.

This will motivate teachers and doctors (people who can see the fruits of their labor), but will not motivate people who work in areas where their labor does not aid a few people, but hundreds. These areas are those such as factory jobs where supervisors are needed. Even if they enjoy their position, they have to do it-- all the time. Not everyone can be teachers and doctors.

Linux contributions do not require years of education and then years of daily labor, plus when one improves on Linux they themselves can see the benefits. Jobs do not always offer this effect.

Many jobs require people to work in "apples under the door" jobs.
Whether they place 10, 5, 3, or 1 apple under the door, they recieve the same pay. People in these positions do not feel good if they work harder, nor do they feel bad if they do not.

(Using myself as an example was not uncalled for, I asked many people around me what they would do in such a position, they replied that ensured income would not motivate them, no matter what field they were in. )

People who inherit vast fortunes do not seek to work, why would someone in a technate, there would be no laws forcing someone to push themself. If 1 person does not work hard, the other 499 people in the same position do not see the reason to work any harder.

[Mr. Anderson]

When a person volunteers in charities, they can see who them are helping.

This will motivate teachers and doctors (people who can see the fruits of their labor), but will not motivate people who work in areas where their labor does not aid a few people, but hundreds. These areas are those such as factory jobs where supervisors are needed. Even if they enjoy their position, they have to do it-- all the time. Not everyone can be teachers and doctors.

First of all, I will address your comment about how people will have to do their job "all the time". The estimates of how much people will need to work are 4 hours a day, 4 days a week. A 16 hour work week is hardly "all the time".

Secondly, many undesirable jobs like the factory supervisor would be eliminated. Why? Automation. Why do you need a guy to supervise machines?

Third, people are motivated to do things which do not benefit others directly. What about doing something merely for the challenge? You know those cubes...I think Rubrick's cubes? Why do people do those? It offers a challenge. Apply this to many other activities. If the work offers a challenge, overcoming a challenge is motivation.

Linux contributions do not require years of education and then years of daily labor, plus when one improves on Linux they themselves can see the benefits. Jobs do not always offer this effect.

So are we born with the programming skills to modify Linux in a significant way? Please, modify Linux for me.

One needs to be able to program well in order to modify Linux significantly. In order to program well, one needs to undergo many years of education. People are not born with an innate programaming ability.

Modifying Linux in any significant way also does take years of daily labor. It is a difficult process.

And to restate what I said earlier, overcoming challenges is also a motivation to do things.

Many jobs require people to work in "apples under the door" jobs.
Whether they place 10, 5, 3, or 1 apple under the door, they recieve the same pay. People in these positions do not feel good if they work harder, nor do they feel bad if they do not.

These jobs would not exist. Automation would eliminate them.

(Using myself as an example was not uncalled for, I asked many people around me what they would do in such a position, they replied that ensured income would not motivate them, no matter what field they were in. )

Irrelevant to me.

People who inherit vast fortunes do not seek to work, why would someone in a technate, there would be no laws forcing someone to push themself. If 1 person does not work hard, the other 499 people in the same position do not see the reason to work any harder.

This is a vast generalization which is not true. I live in a very rich area. Tiburon, California, to be exact. There are millionaires everywhere. A lot of these people work simply because they are too bored not working and want some purpose. They do not need to work, yet they do. This is an example in my favor, actually.

I do not have statistics on me, just personal experience, though. Maybe rich people elsewhere lounge around. If you can dig up some statistics, that would be great.