[R_G]

As Dave Tate once said:

Steroids are like an ace card. If you’re an athlete you’ve got 1 ace card to play, when are you goting to play it? If you have to use that ace card to play in your high school football team you’re probably not going to play in college. If you’ve got to flip that ace card to go to college and play, you’re probably not going to play pro. If you’ve got flip it while you’re training for the combine than you’re probably going to go pro. Doesn’t mean you’re going to stay a pro for very long. If you’re going to be a pro for 5 years in the NFL and than you flip it to play for another 5 years now you’re making another 10-15 million dollars. It’s all a matter of when you feel you have to flip that card

Do you agree?


I think any physically demanding records that are broken today over any records set in the 1980s are all a result of doping without question.

[Eisleben]

It does seem like record-breaking athletes are very frequently caught doping. And, I suspect the remaining few are just avoiding getting caught.

[Rancid]

Yea, you pretty much can't trust any records these days. At this point, you might as well allow doping and just give the awards to the best dopers. They still have to train right? It's not like Lance Amstrong just doped and was bad ass, he still trained.

[Godstud]

Training, diet, genetics, new techniques, etc. all lead to broken records due to better athletes. There are many modern athletes that do not use doping, etc. to break records.

[Galoredk]

If you think that NFL players do not start using steroids in high school, then you are mistaken.
It is not an ace, it is the only way to match the other players who already use steroids in high school.

[Demosthenes]

Yea, you pretty much can't trust any records these days. At this point, you might as well allow doping and just give the awards to the best dopers. They still have to train right? It's not like Lance Amstrong just doped and was bad ass, he still trained.

Agreed completely.

This, all the way.

[Bounce]

Yea, you pretty much can't trust any records these days. At this point, you might as well allow doping and just give the awards to the best dopers. They still have to train right? It's not like Lance Amstrong just doped and was bad ass, he still trained.

The gains are unnatural and have serious side effects. EPO causes tumors to form, and many people have linked this to his testicular cancer.

The races also become methodical as a persons endurance can be measured by their cocktail of drugs. There's a story of Armstrong ringing Dr. Ferrari (the doping doctor) during a race after a competitor took an early lead and Ferrari knew, based on the drugs the competitor had taken, he couldn't sustain the break away.

[Demosthenes]

The gains are unnatural and have serious side effects.

Which is the athletes risk to take... or not.

EPO causes tumors to form, and many people have linked this to his testicular cancer.

Which is, again, the athletes risk to take... or not. Always with the "saving people from themselves" bit. Not you, just people in general. Anyway, point is, doping is meh.

Its like keeping up with hacking or any other drugs, the "bad guys" will always be a step ahead. Perhaps the "If you can't beat them..." thing applies?

The races also become methodical as a persons endurance can be measured by their cocktail of drugs. There's a story of Armstrong ringing Dr. Ferrari (the doping doctor) during a race after a competitor took an early lead and Ferrari knew, based on the drugs the competitor had taken, he couldn't sustain the break away.

There isn't a methodicalness to races without doping? Really?

[Bounce]

I think authorities can regulate drug use. They aren't always ahead. The methods used to catch drug abusers wasn't the same as they have now.

In the interview with Oprah, Armstrong says that they never actually came and drug tested at training camps ect., just on race days. They also didn't store samples as they do now.

The bests riders may always win, but it doesn't their competitiveness cannot be measured until the inputs are known. It would be boring going into a race and knowing, rider A can go 'x fast' and rider B can go 'c fast' based upon their drug use.

I like the spectacle of a drug free sport, even if it isn't .

[Americanroyalty]

If you think that NFL players do not start using steroids in high school, then you are mistaken.
It is not an ace, it is the only way to match the other players who already use steroids in high school.

Played high school football and there was actually a couple of people who used steroids, but not many and not necessarily even the best players on the team.
As the muscles get bigger the testicles get smaller.

[Godstud]

Smaller testicles don't affect performance(sexual ore otherwise), so it's really just streamlining.

[R_G]

Yeah, steroid use at the High School level is minimal.


There's no shortage of reasons for this, but the main one is body growth. Taking anabolic steroids at 15 would more than likely fuck your system up for life. Not saying there aren't stupid kids, but that's not the norm.




In terms of pro athletics. I am sure there's maybe a 20% group that don't take steroids out of principle, but the top of the top all do. It's why you make the millions. Now the thing to remember is what kind of steroids.


Some athletes no doubt take a lot of supplements, which you could consider as steroids. The ones that take anabolic steroids, etc, it's about regular usage and abuse, etc.

[Bounce]

Smaller testicles don't affect performance(sexual ore otherwise), so it's really just streamlining.

I thought that the new steroids don't have this side effect any more.

[Godstud]

Using testosterone has this effect. Your body is no longer producing testosterone(since it detects an excess), so there is some natural shrinkage, as they atrophy normally thru lack of use. They do return to normal size if you stop taking steroids and your body starts creating testosterone again, though.

[Galoredk]

Your does not always recover, which is why the most popular operation for men is removing manboobs.
When you increase testosterone and your body do not bounce back after quitting, your oestrogen levels are too high = boobs.

On top of that add increased liver cancer risk, heart disease, depression, blod cluts, and other crap. In so many words, you fuck yourselves up.

People who do so to earn millions in the NFL I can understand. People who do this because of vanity are idiots...

[Demosthenes]

I think authorities can regulate drug use.

Really? Because they haven't been able to do it effectively on any level... well... ever.

They aren't always ahead.

They are always one step ahead, it's the nature of reactionary (not in the political sense) lawmaking.

The methods used to catch drug abusers wasn't the same as they have now.

Right, and the dopers just advance and change their methods.

Let's just face it, its only "cheating" if their is a rule against it. Change the rules and the athletes still train, and you still get an exciting show.

People who don't want to dope don't have too.

[Bounce]

It's a values judgement, I get that.

Holding the samples allows for retrospective testing so any cheating / awards / reputation is only temporary.