[Demosthenes]

I consider that a "loss" for them, so I'm ok with that!

[Khenlein]

As I said, three out of four is a dynasty, but by no means in the class of the great dynasties of the past. This 'salary cap' excuse bs just means that the Pats have been beating up on teams of extreme parody... right? I mean the pats have never had to face the hi-payroll Cowboys, 49'ers or the Redskins in one year have they? No, they've faced average teams in an average league... and only have a 9 point margin to show for their 3 super bowl victories. The Cowboys won theirs by an average of 17 points. And these dynasties of old were never gifted their super bowl run by a 'tuck'. If not for that bad call we'd probably be seeing Oakland claim their 3rd title in 4 years. But at any rate, congrats to the Pats for another convincinb super bowl run.

?? Thats the whole point. The Patriots can't spend more than any other team, taking "Yankees/Cowboys" syndrome out of the equation. That fact that the Patriots have won it all 3 out of 4 in an age where teams are 'forcefully' made equal through salary caps and scheduling, makes the feat more impressive. Todays league is one where Conference Champions aren't even making the playoffs the next year. And where 5-10 teams are Winning Superbowls. So being consitently Victorious (*in football even more so than other sports, because one bad play can lose you a season), is something extraordinary.

If the Patriots of today had to face the late 80's Niners or the early 90's Cowboys, I think theyd probably get beat. But you measure a teams "greatness" by how it compares to its contemporaries.

Troy Aikman and Jimmy Johnson themselves have said that this is a more impressive feat,,,and I think they might now a thing or two about the Dalls Dynaysty.


er,,,,, Not to give the impression that I care all that much about where they rank in history,,,, I'm enjoying the present too much as it is. Perhaps in 15 years when I am where the Cowboys fans are now,,, Ill care a bit more.

[Khenlein]

Demos,

I read recently that Philadelphia is the only city with the big "4" sports not to have a Championship within the past 26 years,,, I sympathize with you, I really do. That must be hard for a sports fan,,

As someone who never experience a championship until '01 (too young to remember the Celtics or Bruins), I can attest to that.

[briansmith]

I should just point out that this whole "strength of schedule" being an equalizer argument is absolute trash. Do you know who has the most difficult schedule for the upcoming 2005-2006 NFL season? Miami.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Just like before the salary cap you have teams in the NFL today that are consistenly good, ie the Packers, the Eagles, the Pats, and the Colts, and until this year the Dolphins and the Titans among others. And you have teams that are consistently bad, ie the Browns, the Lions, the Bengals and the Cardinals among others. This has not changed much since the days before free agency and the salary cap. Today, just like yesterday, you have franchises that are committed to winning and do, and those who are not and dont. Free agency has no doubt increased parody in the middle area but have not eliminated the cellar or the cream. Its not as if the 49'ers or the Cowboys were playing scrubs all those years, and were the only teams without a cap, they were playing by the same rules and on the same level as everyone else who were also committed, and spent millions on winning.

Troy Aikman and Jimmy Johnson themselves have said that this is a more impressive feat,,,and I think they might now a thing or two about the Dalls Dynaysty.

What do you expect them to say!! Unlike Micheal Irvin, they have class.

If the Patriots of today had to face the late 80's Niners or the early 90's Cowboys, I think theyd probably get beat. But you measure a teams "greatness" by how it compares to its contemporaries.

Youre correct, and honestly, the Pats are only 3 points better than any of their contemporaries. You cannot seriously argue that they are in another class above Philly, or the other contenders this year, they were beaten by the freakin Dolphins this year for chrissakes. The old dynasties we speak of on the other hand, are a different story.

[briansmith]

Sometimes even dynasty teams get beat by teams that are less talented. For example, in the 1992 season, Dallas lost to Los Angeles (Rams), Philadelphia, and Washington. In 1993, they lost to Washington, Buffalo, Atlanta, and Miam. In 1994, they lost to Detroit, San Francisco, Cleveland, and New York (Giants). Finally, in 1995, they lost to Washington (twice), San Francisco, and Philadelphia.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

With none of those teams being as bad as the 2004 Dolphins.

Did Dallas miss the playoffs in 1993? Thought not.

[Khenlein]

Youre correct, and honestly, the Pats are only 3 points better than any of their contemporaries. You cannot seriously argue that they are in another class above Philly, or the other contenders this year, they were beaten by the freakin Dolphins this year for chrissakes. The old dynasties we speak of on the other hand, are a different story.

Yes, they are in a different class than Philadelphia. There is a 3rd Vince Lombardi Trophy making the rounds of New England, that will soon join its 2 older brothers in Foxboro Massachussetts.

You seem not to be able to grasp that though the Patriots probably would lose against Montana or Aikman in their heyday. Those Niners and Cowobys could not exsist in todays NFL.

You have some valid points, but I cannot be on the same page as you, as some of the guys you are "defending". Namely a QB with 3 rings and 8 Concussions, and the Coach who drafted him, are on the same page as I am.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Yes, they are in a different class than Philadelphia. There is a 3rd Vince Lombardi Trophy making the rounds of New England, that will soon join its 2 older brothers in Foxboro Massachussetts.

I think they'e a better team, but by no means in another class.

Those Niners and Cowobys could not exsist in todays NFL.

I never said they could, and likewise about the Patriots existing 15 years ago in the NFL. Actually they did, and they were one of the sorriest franchises around.

Namely a QB with 3 rings and 8 Concussions, and the Coach who drafted him, are on the same page as I am.

Thats called modesty... The same modesty that makes Dan Marino say that Manning would have broken the record anyway had it not been for the rule change when the civilised world says otherwise.

Great teams consistently defeat their competition convincingly, as did the early 70's Dolphins, the steelers or the late 70's, the 49'ers of the 80's, and the Cowboys of the 90's. Great teams dont consistently squeeze by with field goal wins.

[briansmith]

With none of those teams being as bad as the 2004 Dolphins.

Did Dallas miss the playoffs in 1993? Thought not.

'92 Eagles: 11-5
'92 Rams: 6-10
'92 Redskins: 9-7

'93 Redskins: 4-12
'93 Bills: 12-4
'93 Falcons: 6-10
'93 Dolphins: 9-7

'94 Lions: 9-7
'94 49ers: 13-3
'94 Browns: 11-5
'94 Giants: 9-7

'95 Redskins: 6-10
'95 49ers: 11-5
'95 Eagles: 10-6

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Only team nearing as bad was the '93 Redskins. Who beat an Emmitt-less Cowboys (holdout-remember?) in the 1st week of the season!! No contest to losing to a horrible Dolphins in December.

[briansmith]

I'm not defending the Patriots by any means. It was both hilarious and disgraceful that the Patriots got smacked by the Dolphins in that game. I miss the Dolphins actually being good, actually.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Your telling me... im a lifelong Dolphins fan, while used to disappointment, i've never had to deal with this kind of losing. It took me all year to get used to hearing the commentators and analysts refering to them as one of the worst for all of their comparisons.