[Bridgeburner]

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zeitgeist_Movement

Seems like a leftist organization at first glance, however, the embracing of science is something that resonates with me.

If you look deeper though, some of their policies aim at de-militarization, and societal homogenity and harmony, a nice precursor to a fascist system. Look at it cynically, and I am troubled. They attempt to challenge this stable system of human politics that has existed ever since we descended from the trees, through some sort of Utopian ideal of a marxist technocracy....

So much idealism and so many gullible people have never been concentrated in such little space. Honestly, I blame the media for encouraging this kind of crap.

[Preston Cole]

There's absolutely nothing fascist about this organization, in my opinion. It's Terranist, anti-militarist (militarism is a hallmark of fascism) and anti-nationalist; a utopian project the likes of which not even Marx dreamed about.

I suspect starman would be interested in this organization, but I doubt he'd appreciate its apparent rejection of authoritarianism.

If you look deeper though, some of their policies aim at de-militarization, and societal homogenity and harmony, a nice precursor to a fascist system.

But their societal harmony doesn't make any reference to a proud, war-ready and transclass community, and their anti-militarism can in no way fit fascism. The peace under fascism isn't one where giant butterflies color the sky and people gasp at them. It's a peace that makes people strong and ready for war if it should arise. The sort of demilitarization peace we see around the globe now is an invitation to genocide, war and cultural degradation.

[Bridgeburner]

There's absolutely nothing fascist about this organization, in my opinion. It's Terranist, anti-militarist (militarism is a hallmark of fascism) and anti-nationalist; a utopian project the likes of which not even Marx dreamed about.

I suspect starman would be interested in this organization, but I doubt he'd appreciate its apparent rejection of authoritarianism.

A fascist government would spawn from an anti-fascist movement. Fascism and authoritarianism, or even their discussion are considered taboo in the West. By appeasing to the masses on this ground, any potential suspicion or hatred would be deflected.

[Preston Cole]

Western schizophrenia has led to everyone being labeled a "fascist." Even liberals. By appeasing them, we'd only be playing their game. Besides, I doubt a pacifistic movement like Zeitgeist is ever going to become fascist even after their idealized revolution. This "appeasement" theory has only become an issue for authoritarian movements after the totalitarian atrocities committed in the 20th century, and look at how it's working: we've yet to see a fascist movement seize power in any country yet. True, there are some crypto-fascists in Berlusconi's government who have used the appeasement tactic to gain power, but their fascism is still muzzled.

I say we be honest about ourselves.

[Section Leader]

I like the anti-religious aspects, but everything else is bullshit. They naively believe everyone will start holding hands and sing I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing on a hillside when they abolish money and national governments.

[Traianus]

Their main fault is their failiure to understand that humans have an innate need/desire for hierachy, ownership, tribalism and violence (militarism). None of these things have ever been successfully removed from a society and survived more than 100 years, in fact I would argue that it is physically impossible to remove tribalism, people will always group themselves with and defend those who share common values/ancestry/religion.

I doubt this pitiful "movement" (more like stagnant) will grow beyond a few emasculated liberal western democracies.

[Section Leader]

I doubt this pitiful "movement" (more like stagnant) will grow beyond a few emasculated liberal western democracies.

Indeed, and when those democracies finally ossify and collapse this organisation will cease to exist too.

[Bridgeburner]

I doubt this pitiful "movement" (more like stagnant) will grow beyond a few emasculated liberal western democracies.

Indeed, and when those democracies finally ossify and collapse this organisation will cease to exist too.

My line of thinking with the de-militarization was that de-militarizing the world would make it easier for a powerful political party to obtain total and utter dominance through use of a ruthless indoctrinated army. I wouldn't mind this normally, except for the fact that they are the anathema to everything human beings are biologically, as mentioned by Traianus, not to mention that their end-goal is nothing more than a marxist pipe dream.

[J Oswald]

It is true that de-militarization will make it easier for a militaristic takeover to occur, however, there is also the problem of education. When a country demilitarizes, it is oftentimes accompanied by a wave of pacifistic indoctrination in the schools and public universities, which would have to be overcome by any fascist movement before they can then indoctrinate those same people into their movement. The rejection of human nature by this movement also disturbs me greatly, since it seems to be a precursor for a form of Left-Communism.

[starman2003]

Ultimately there should be widespread de-militarization but only after successful hegemonization, as in the Roman Empire. De-militarization is the last thing I predict immediately after democracy cracks.

[Bridgeburner]

It is true that de-militarization will make it easier for a militaristic takeover to occur, however, there is also the problem of education. When a country demilitarizes, it is oftentimes accompanied by a wave of pacifistic indoctrination in the schools and public universities, which would have to be overcome by any fascist movement before they can then indoctrinate those same people into their movement. The rejection of human nature by this movement also disturbs me greatly, since it seems to be a precursor for a form of Left-Communism.

I see the light, interpreting this in the wrong context. My revamped opinion is now that this is the left learning from it's mistakes and adapting by hopping on the environmentalist and anti-societal fifth column that is present within most Western democracies. The media has taught individuals in these populations largely to despise the hands that feed them, and view those responsible for control of their society as the ultimate evil, whilst blinding them to the threat of Islamofascism and a crumbling societal structure.

A resurgence in International Marxism that has proven itself more adaptable.

Ultimately there should be widespread de-militarization but only after successful hegemonization, as in the Roman Empire. De-militarization is the last thing I predict immediately after democracy cracks.

This organization has assembled quite a cadre of individuals to capitalize (mind the irony) on any collapse of a democratic government. In addition to being globalist, they preach a line of thinking that epitomizes current Western society as evil, and though pacifist outwardly, I have no doubt that having such a large indoctrinated base, they can move quickly to assert political power should a vacuum emerge.

Rotfront vs the SturmAbeitlung, version 2.

[starman2003]

Well that's surprising, considering that until the other day I hadn't even heard of them. I've long felt that as the failures of democracy become more glaring, the number of intelligent opponents (i.e. not like KKK etc) will increase, including military officers and other nonelected officials, and they'll be in the best position to overthrow/replace the system. But other groups may become part of a new governing coalition.