[anasawad]

Fanaticism is the embracing of brainwashing and the rejection of reasoning, logic, ethics, morality, and thinking.

One good clue that fanaticism has occurred is the abundant use of fallacies.

Since you can not or would not debunk the concept of god using logic or science or philosophy so far.
And on the other hand i have supported that concept many times so far.
That tells my point.

BTW. Says the person who doesn't know the Persian empire ended in 1979.

[yiostheoy]

Since you can not or would not debunk the concept of god using logic or science or philosophy so far.
And on the other hand i have supported that concept many times so far.
That tells my point.

BTW. Says the person who doesn't know the Persian empire ended in 1979.

Answad, I hereby call attention to your vociferousness and your ad hominems and pronounce you duly radicalized and fanatical. I'm glad you don't live in my neighborhood. I'm glad there are 7300 miles between us. Go in peace. You are now going onto a certain list reserved for those who cannot think logically or debate without fallacies. Feel free to continue your vociferousness and ad hom's but please do not expect any more replies from me. If you address me in your posts from now on it is simply rhetorical.

[Oxymoron]

No one is claiming that dark matter has intelligence. It is a measurable and theoretical function.

Meaningless intelligence or no intelligence has nothing to do with the analogy. I can same say thing about Gods work they are measurable and theoretical.

[Oxymoron]

Although God and His/Her fellow Gods seem very shy and reclusive, that does not mean They are completely "unknowable". It only means They have not formally introduced themselves to YOU yet.

Q.E.D. A-priori.

In addition, it would appear that certain persons in the past DID have some kind of epiphany with the God(s) and these people then passed on their revelations to posterity.

Zoroaster strikes me as someone who was extremely bright beyond human possibility and therefore most likely he did have such an epiphany with the God(s).

Moses was apparently next, and he leaves us with a very vivid description of the God's laws as well -- very similar to Zoroaster's.

The apostles of Jesus seem to be next in line, although they take a reformist approach to what they had previously inherited from Moses, and as such Peter and Paul change back many of the rules. Now circumcision and kosher foods were no longer relevant, and the Jews themselves were no longer any more chosen than the Greeks or the Romans or the Syrians.

Constantine also seems to have had an epiphany, and as a result what he did next against all odds changed the entire world for every living person who ever came afterward, even those living in remote communities in East Asia indirectly at least.

Q.E.D. A-posteriori.

So be careful when you say "unknowable" because that would be essentially ordaining a negative -- which this thread has already logically and allegorically demonstrated is impossible.

I did not say God is beyond interaction(Using DMT and the like), I said God can never be fully understood by humanity but helps us understand the undecipherable.

[anasawad]

Answad, I hereby call attention to your vociferousness and your ad hominems and pronounce you duly radicalized and fanatical. I'm glad you don't live in my neighborhood. I'm glad there are 7300 miles between us. Go in peace. You are now going onto a certain list reserved for those who cannot think logically or debate without fallacies. Feel free to continue your vociferousness and ad hom's but please do not expect any more replies.

Since you have not debunked the concept of god, nor provided logical or philosophical foundations to the claim that god does not exist.
Then i suppose you can not.

Keep in mind that your opinions about me is worth absolutley nothing, nor that i would care about what you think of me.

[yiostheoy]

I did not say God is beyond interaction(Using DMT and the like), I said God can never be fully understood by humanity but helps us understand the undecipherable.

This does not sound like a very sincere confession.

[Nets]

I didn't want to be pressured into the reveal just yet, but so be it. I am God. Disprove that, Anasawad.

[anasawad]

LOL.
If i shot you in the head you'd die, thus you're not god. :P
If i called one of my uncles, i can track you down and ruin your life. Since i can do that to you and you cant to me then you're not god.
Since you abide by physical rules and nature then you're not god, as a creator does not abide by his creation.

[Nets]

Who the hell are you, mortal, to tell me, God, what I may or may not do? If I want to make it appear that I have been shot in the head and have died as a result, that is my prerogative. I am God, I don't need to obey whatever arbitrary rules for supposed Godhood that you've cooked up in your head. I can create the illusion of my death just as easily as I can create the illusion of dinosaur fossils and carbon dating to deceive those of little faith.

Seriously, how can you conclusively prove that I am not God? You can argue that it is unlikely but you can't prove it.

If you repent now, Anas, I will spare you from eternal hellfire. But you have to do it sooner rather than later.

[Red_Army]

Jesus Christ died for our sins and so did Obi Wan Kenobi.

I think you're playing into Nets' hands anasawad and should be wary!

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

Nets spoke to me while I was tending to my pickling of vegetables and had me transcribe a series of writings that he says will enable humanity's spiritual enlightenment. Who else but Gard would do such a thing?

[Zionist Nationalist]

anasawad I know that its hard to let go of old habits but just think about it why are you a Muslim and not part of any other religion? (probably because you were born Muslim) people who were born Christian or buddhist mostly stay that way but because of the progressions in the western world religion is being abandoned. it will happen eventually in the Muslim world but it will take a few more centuries for religion to become unimportant in MENA like Christianity is in the western Europe

[anasawad]

Seriously, how can you conclusively prove that I am not God? You can argue that it is unlikely but you can't prove it.

And finally someone reached the point of i wanted of this thread.

See, as we discussed many times before the universe is a result of something external to it. Whether its part of anther universe as in multi verse with each verse dying by splitting into several verses.
The rebirth from the aches of an older universe as in the theory of big crunch .
The result of combination physical forces that could create something out of nothing. Or GOD.

You know whats the simillarities between all those.
Those are all theories. They're also all valid and all based on logical and scientific observations.
Because science and logic accepts all of them together.
We have debated this many times here before.

Now whats the other simillarity between them.
Is that you cant debunk any of them, and you also cant actually proof any of them.
And no one will ever be able to do so to any of them.

Now the question of this thread is can you disprove god, which doesn't mean prove negative. It means can you debunk the concept of the existence of god.

This is to show the hypocracy in many people here pretending those who believe in god are idiots when everyone is standing on the exact same ground.


@Zionist Nationalist
I followed Islam because it seemed logical to me. specifically the sect of Zaid ben Ali.
And because it makes me feel better about my self and more secure.
And it was not forced on me BTW.
In my brothers and sisters (from the same father) I have my self a Zaidi. Jafari, Sunni, Christian and Zoroastrian.
So no it was not forced on me nor i was born with it.

[yiostheoy]

anasawad I know that its hard to let go of old habits but just think about it why are you a Muslim and not part of any other religion? (probably because you were born Muslim) people who were born Christian or buddhist mostly stay that way but because of the progressions in the western world religion is being abandoned. it will happen eventually in the Muslim world but it will take a few more centuries for religion to become unimportant in MENA like Christianity is in the western Europe

The trend that I see is towards either Deism (belief in a God-like force but not organized religion) or Agnosticism (absence of interest in religion on the basis of Empirical science -- then actually Science becomes the religion).

Organized religion among anyone but the poor and the undereducated seems very untenable given the obvious exploitation that organized religion makes of its parishioners. Most all of my Catholic friends and I have stopped going to church regularly, and some only attend at Christmas or Easter. And virtually all of us disagree with the Pope.

But we are very lucky we have never been brainwashed about 72 virgins and suicide vests. Seems like that would blow your balls clean off and then virgins wouldn't do you any good even if they had firm breasts.

[anasawad]

Organized religion among anyone but the poor and the undereducated seems very untenable given the obvious exploitation that organized religion makes of its parishioners. Most all of my Catholic friends and I have stopped going to church regularly, and some only attend at Christmas or Easter. And virtually all of us disagree with the Pope.

But we are very lucky we have never been brainwashed about 72 virgins and suicide vests. Seems like that would blow your balls clean off and then virgins wouldn't do you any good.

And more evidence not only you don't know anything about me but also about Islam.

[Nets]

Long story short, anasawad confuses the definitions of "scientific theory" and "fairy tale", and demands that everyone respect this and not call out this obvious delusion. I think the vast majority of people don't really have opinions one way or another on the origins of the universe, but give physicists the benefit of the doubt because physicists can explain their thought processes by appealing to visible, empirical evidence and formal logic. Explain to me how we can derive the existence of Allah from what we agree is physically observable in the universe, without relying on unreliable, impossible-to-corroborate, accounts of "miracles" from thousands of years ago.

You are trying to make the claim that hypotheses arrived at via the scientific method and hypotheses arrived at via theological reasoning are equally persuasive. They just aren't. If I did a mindwipe on all of mankind, it is probable that they'd eventually come up with a theory resembling the big bang. It is highly improbably they'd recreate Islam. Anas, explain to me the logical process based on empirical evidence and logic that reconstructs Islam -- without resorting to the miraculous gift of the Quran to Mohamed.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

Now the question of this thread is can you disprove god, which doesn't mean prove negative. It means can you debunk the concept of the existence of god.

Anas, several people have already pointed out that it is logically impossible to disprove the concept of a divine being/God/deity. It is also logically impossible to prove that any such divine being/God/deity exists.

So just be happy with your own beliefs, and keep in mind that there are many religions which claim to represent the truth behind the universe and our existence. Even when we discount the inaccurate scientific claims made by any of them, when we get down to the core spiritual beliefs and concepts, all of these religions are essentially no more or less falsifiable.

[Nets]

It is also logically impossible to prove that any such divine being/God/deity exists.

I disagree. Anasawad's deity could theoretically reveal itself to every man woman and child on Earth simultaneously in a flash of blinding light, announcing its plan for humanity etc etc, and then perform some miracle like stopping the Earth's rotation. I'd be basically convinced at that point. That would settle it. You could always say



but at that point it is kind of semantics.

[anasawad]

Except here you get it wrong.
See, not only science cant explain what happened before the big bang. it also cant explain how the big bang happened.
And its most probably never will be because what we now know as the scientific laws of physics didn't exist back then.

Those aren't theories like the rest of the observable and measurable theories.
Those are theories based on logical reasoning with no evidence, or observation, or accounting of any law of physics or anything.

When all those theories came out, there was no scientific explanation for them nor any basis on the scientific theories we have.
Look at any documentary or read any book about them.
They don't count on any basis for it, they count on probability and logical reasoning.
The concept of god is exactly the same.

Science accept them all because as much we could ever advance in science, everything we know would be about what is current, not on what was before.
i.e whats the current state of the universe and where it could be heading. Not what was before this state.
All the laws of physics, all the scienctific theories we have. They all with no exception break down before you even reach moment zero in the big bang.
Basically, that is the point that is beyond reach and will always be beyond reach.

Thus we explain it by logic.
Some say there are multi verse. then here they split to some to say each universe that dies gives birth to more verses.
Or that there are physical forces that creates verses out of nothing.
some say its the same universe that goes through an infinite cycle of birth and rebirth with no change.
Some say its god.

None of them with no exception have any basis of scientific observation or laws or measuring or anything.
Yet you can science all of them, and we did quite a number of time here before BTW.



@Bulaba Jones
Logically you can prove all those theories.
But you cant logically disprove any of them.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

@Bulaba Jones
Logically you can prove all those theories.
But you cant logically disprove any of them.

You cannot prove the existence of God or try and use logic to prove which religion, if any, is correct. Religion =/= theory.