[Besoeker]

I have already explained how your incorrect beliefs about atheism are too simplistic. You can keep replying to me, but it will simply result in me repeating that your incorrect beliefs are simplistic.

You still don't get it. Atheism is the ABSENCE of a belief in any deity.
It really is that simple.

[Pants-of-dog]

Actually, the example of the cargo cults shows that atheism can also involve a knowledge that a god does not exist.

But please repeat your incorrect simplification again, and I can once again show how you are incorrect.

[Besoeker]

Actually, the example of the cargo cults shows that atheism can also involve a knowledge that a god does not exist.

But please repeat your incorrect simplification again, and I can once again show how you are incorrect.

OK. Try.

[Pants-of-dog]

OK. Try.

Cargo cultists believed that by making effigies of planes, they would magically receive western goods from the gods.

You (hopefully) know that planes deliver goods for reasons that have nothing to do with magical effigies.

Thus you (again, hopefully) know that this religious belief about plane effigies is incorrect.

This knowledge is more than a simple absence of belief.

[noemon]

what do I get in exchange for ritually entertaining an invisible unresponsive entity?

Discipline, formality, order. Ritual is a formalised order to open & close a session. Placing the third-party(God) as the ultimate arbiter among the participants provides for equality among the participants as no-one can claim the title for himself/herself. The value/characteristics ascribed to the arbiter is the value agreed among the participants, which can then reference back to an objectively(as opposed to subjectively imposed by one of the group) agreed POV which then sets precedents. This is the ultimate origins of communal ordered life and participation in the rituals extends this disciplined order among the spectators, who then transmit it to their own houses and propagate it through the community as a whole, you can see the break-down of this order in the modern-day when people feel entitled to interrupt others, being rude, having no sense of time and generally lacking order in their daily routines which prevents them from setting targets.

[Besoeker]

Cargo cultists believed that by making effigies of planes, they would magically receive western goods from the gods.

You (hopefully) know that planes deliver goods for reasons that have nothing to do with magical effigies.

Thus you (again, hopefully) know that this religious belief about plane effigies is incorrect.

This knowledge is more than a simple absence of belief.

OK. You've tried - and spectacularly failed.
I'm an athist, not a cargo cultist. I have no belief whatsoever in this effigy guff. I'd never even heard of it.

From Wikipedia:
"Symbols associated with Christianity and modern Western society tend to be incorporated into their rituals; for example the use of cross-shaped grave markers. Notable examples of cargo cult activity include the setting up of mock airstrips, airports, offices, and dining rooms, as well as the fetishization and attempted construction of Western goods, such as radios made of coconuts and straw. Believers may stage "drills" and "marches" with sticks for rifles and use military-style insignia and national insignia painted on their bodies to make them look like soldiers, thereby treating the activities of Western military personnel as rituals to be performed for the purpose of attracting the cargo."

That's not me any anything like anybody I know.

[Pants-of-dog]

If you think that I am claiming that cargo cults are a type of atheism, then you have spectacularly failed to get my point.

Cargo cults are a type of theism, and our doubt about that theism is a type of atheism. And that type of atheism is not merely an absence of belief.

[Besoeker]

If you think that I am claiming that cargo cults are a type of atheism, then you have spectacularly failed to get my point.

It isn't. That was my point. But, as usual.....

[Pants-of-dog]

As long as we are clear that cargo cults are a type of theism, and our doubt about that theism is a type of atheism. And that type of atheism is not merely an absence of belief.

[Besoeker]

As long as we are clear that cargo cults are a type of theism, and our doubt about that theism is a type of atheism. And that type of atheism is not merely an absence of belief.

There are no "types" of atheism.
It is what it is. Simply the absence of theism.
If you wish to come up with ever more convoluted explanations or definitions, they don't change what it is.

[Godstud]

Wrong. There are many "types of atheism". Not all are alike. This is what POD is trying to make you understand. What he's been trying to make you understand is 1. Difference in knowledge.

For brevity’s sake, I have substituted “gods” for the usual phrase “God or gods.”

17 Kinds of Atheism
1. Difference in Knowledge

A gnostic atheist not only believes there are no gods, he also claims to know there are no gods.

An agnostic atheist doesn’t believe in gods, but doesn’t claim to know there are no gods.

2. Difference in Affirmation

A negative atheist merely lacks a belief in gods. He is also called a weak atheist or an implicit atheist.

A positive atheist not only lacks a belief in gods, but also affirms that no gods exist. He is also called a strong atheist or an explicit atheist.

3. Difference in Scope

A broad atheist denies the existence of all gods: Zeus, Thor, Yahweh, Shiva, and so on.

A narrow atheist denies the existence of the traditional Western omni-God who is all-good, all-knowing, and all-powerful.

4. Difference in the Assessed Rationality of Theism

An unfriendly atheist believes no one is justified in believing that gods exist.

An indifferent atheist doesn’t have a belief on whether or not others are justified in believing that gods exist.

A friendly atheist believes that some theists are justified in believing that gods exist.

5. Difference in Openness

A closet atheist has not yet revealed his disbelief to most people.

An open atheist has revealed his disbelief to most people.

6. Difference in Action

A passive atheist doesn’t believe in god but doesn’t try to influence the world in favor of atheism.

An evangelical atheist tries to persuade others to give up theistic belief.

An active atheist labors on behalf of causes that specifically benefit atheists (but not necessarily just atheists). For example, he strives against discrimination toward atheists, or he strives in favor of separation of church and state.

A militant atheist uses violence to promote atheism or destroy religion. (Often, the term “militant atheist” is misapplied to non-violent evangelical atheists like Richard Dawkins. But to preserve the parallel with the “militant Christian” who bombs abortion clinics or the “militant Muslim” suicide bomber, I prefer the definition of “militant atheist” that assumes acts of violence.)

7. Difference in Religiosity

A religious atheist practices religion but does not believe in gods.

A non-religious atheist does not practice religion.

Of course, there are many more “kinds” of atheism than this, for one may be a Republican atheist or a Democratic atheist, a short atheist or a tall atheist, a Caucasian atheist or an Hispanic atheist, a foundationalist atheist or a coherentist atheist, an enchanted atheist or a disenchanted atheist.
http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=6487

[LV-GUCCI-PRADA-FLEX]

I have no belief in any god or any supernatural entity. How can I make that any clearer? No belief in any god. Got that?

No belief is one thing. Proclaiming the non-existence is another. An agnostic also has no belief but will not claim to know about the non-existence of a God, creator or otherwise.

Now, there may be specific gods that an agnostic will be happy to proclaim as non-existing. But a creator God would be difficult if not impossible to formally disprove because this God does not necessarily have physical properties that we would be able to point to. The watchmaker God cannot be dismissed out of hand just because you think it makes the most sense to you.

Evidence for something that doesn't exist??? Are you for real. No I don't. And you don't have any evidence that the FSM doen't exist. That's how silly your question is.

Sure, there's plenty of evidence that the FSM doesn't exist. Namely, the person who originated the FSM as an idea never actually thought that the FSM existed or wanted even to give the illusion of its existence. The FSM doesn't exist because it is satire, meant to specifically show how ridiculous it would be to advance any religious text or idea (specifically intelligent design) in the classroom. That's a fair point, to me. However, what's not a fair point is the way atheists like you use that to try to convince people who believe in God that their ideas are invalid, because you are using the FSM in a way that it cannot be used. Namely, you are using the FSM as a placeholder for other supernatural entities that people actually believed or believe in, including God. The difference is that nobody believes in the FSM, and nor was it meant to be believed, and nor was it meant to be used as an argument in the way that you are using it as an argument.

You do admit, however, that you have no evidence that God does not exist. If that's true, why proclaim God's non-existence as a matter of fact? You can't actually know that God doesn't exist, that's just an arbitrary choice about the matter you have made.

It is not a practical choice either, which is the real reason for this thread. You haven't made a practical choice, you've made a choice based on which answer you believe is right. It is not based on anything that you can actually point to, you just think you're right. And you lose the benefits that faith brings you.

[Godstud]

You haven't made a practical choice

For most people, lack of faith in a deity IS a practical choice.

And you lose the benefits that faith brings you.

You "supposed benefits" do not apply to everyone.

What benefits are you speaking of? How gullible to you have to be to gain from those benefits?

I can definitely see some negative things that faith in a god brings... belief that you'll be punished for vague things, for one.

[Besoeker]

No belief is one thing. Proclaiming the non-existence is another.

Where have I once claimed non-existence?

[Besoeker]

Sure, there's plenty of evidence that the FSM doesn't exist.

That it was made up isn't proof either way. One could equally make the point that you god is made up (by man) with no proof either way.
But how about Woden, Thor, Zeus, or Posiedon to name but a few. Can you prove that none of those exist?

[Besoeker]

Thus you (again, hopefully) know that this religious belief about plane effigies is incorrect.

This knowledge is more than a simple absence of belief.

You've made two somewhat contradictory points there.
The belief is either incorrect or absent. It can't be both.

[LV-GUCCI-PRADA-FLEX]

The point isn't that it's made up, the point is that it's satire. Satire with a very specific purpose at that.

By the way, if you have an absence of belief, then you have to admit that it's possible that God exists.

I'm done wasting time on your lazy replies.

[Pants-of-dog]

There are no "types" of atheism.

Yes, there are. Please read the wiki article to which I already linked.

It is what it is. Simply the absence of theism.

Not always, as I showed by the cargo cults example.

If you wish to come up with ever more convoluted explanations or definitions, they don't change what it is.

It is not me who is coming up with them. It is atheists and philosophers who do. I am merely conveying the message.

You've made two somewhat contradictory points there.
The belief is either incorrect or absent. It can't be both.

Oh, you misunderstood.

In the first case, I am discussing the theism of cargo cultists.

In the second, I am discussing the atheist persepctive about cargo cults.

[Besoeker]

Yes, there are. Please read the wiki article to which I already linked.

I did. I think it is............an imaginitive piece.

[Pants-of-dog]

Well, that is your belief.

And please note that your unsupported beliefs have no impact on the reality of the situation.