[Huntster]

You two seem evenly matched for some really exciting discussion on the subject of art.

I'm afraid not. I don't do art. I'm a hunter and killer. Potemkin is likely very well versed in art.

Two authoritarianist ideologues comparing the beauty of the USSR's industrial revolution to the symbolism of The Terminator and Ronald Reagan's mighty defeat of communism.

It's my opinion that the USSR's industrial revolution was not beautiful, The Terminator is "art" not worthy of mention, but Ronald Reagan's mighty defeat of communism is, indeed, worthy of praise.

[Potemkin]

It's my opinion that the USSR's industrial revolution was not beautiful, The Terminator is "art" not worthy of mention, but Ronald Reagan's mighty defeat of communism is, indeed, worthy of praise.

Industrial revolutions are seldom beautiful, The Terminator is mediocre art at best, and Ronald Reagan was a senile has-been actor and compulsive liar.

Anhoo, weren't we supposed to be discussing great right-wing artists and authors?

[SlipperyPeople]

Fyodor Dostoevsky, Tom Wolfe, John Updike, Ernst Jünger, Alexander Solzenitzen, Thomas Carlyle, Yukio Mishima...

So maybe it's no coincidence that Updike was the worst "Great American Author" ever

[NoRapture]

So maybe it's no coincidence that Updike was the worst "Great American Author" ever

He ranks right up there with Ayn Rand.

[Michaeluj]

Quote:
So maybe it's no coincidence that Updike was the worst "Great American Author" ever
He ranks right up there with Ayn Rand.

So is she the worst or is she a great American Author? She's not considered a real author, based on the intellectuals that you like standing behind, so that leaves fifty percent of your thesis point at fault, causing the rest to make me feel skeptical about your sense of reasoning, thus making the "worst author" part null until an agreement can be made on the factual nature of it.

Anyway, Updike really does suck. At least Rand, even in the Fountainhead, could make proper, readable sentences, never mind the horrid beginning page.

[NoRapture]

She's not considered a real author, based on the intellectuals that you like standing behind...

I stand behind virtually every major author, artist, and composer of most of the 20th century into the 21st. They've all been, biographically speaking, liberal and politically to the left. There are a tiny group of exceptions. The OP asks that they be named. And, no. By the standards of art established by the contemporary pantheon so far, Rand doesn't make the cut with any serious critic.

And, Michaeluj, I must say you've shown yourself to be one of the most woefully uninformed and apparently unread critics of literature and authors I've ever seen. You've said things about books that put you in a minority so miniscule they don't really warrant thought or answer. When you tersely reject highly celebrated works out of hand in such inarticulately disdainful and short fashion, usually for being merely, "grammatically inefficient and poor", you show you aren't a serious reader.

[Michaeluj]

It's hard to trust literary genius to people who believe that books that are painful to read are the best. . . .Actually, aren't, like you said, most professional critics leftists, givers of rewards to virtually all of the writers who happen to be leftist? The plot thickens.

Furthermore, this "minority" is only with the snobs here, for Rand is quite popular outside of this shell of a site. But wait, you will say, what about the professional critics who dislike Rand?
Wait, I've always heard of these critics, but I've never heard references to them. . . .
Anyway, aren't these critics also, technically, a minority? Doesn't that make your views that among the few? Doesn't that mean that the only real standard of literary excellence is the popularity of Dan Brown?

Honestly, you people are so hung up on your views, that you would use every excuse to hate, hate, hate, for something as stupid as someone's ideology, without trying to make the effort to try appreciating the books.

[DanDaMan]

Atlas Shrugged....

Amazon.com Sales Rank: #71 in Books (See Bestsellers in Books)

Popular in these categories: (What's this?)
#2 in Books > Literature & Fiction > Classics > United States > Rand, Ayn
#2 in Books > Literature & Fiction > Authors, A-Z > ( R ) > Rand, Ayn
#2 in Books > Literature & Fiction > Genre Fiction > Political

[Sgt Pepper]

Great Right-Wing artists.... Hitler?? Some of his paintings are really fascinating.

This for example.

[DanDaMan]

Great Right-Wing artists.... Hitler??

Hitler was Left wing because he was identical to another totalitarian leftist dictator, who shot and killed his opposition and murdered his citizens, named Stalin.

Never fall for leftist political dogma again. Always remember to define a government and or man by what he does and not by what he says.

[Ombrageux]

Almost all European and Oriental conservatives and right-wingers have been horrified by American society and politics.

Bingo.

Although it depends what we mean by "conservative". If we go so far as "quasi-reactionary" that is certainly the case. Many people who would naturally side with "conservatives" in Europe (Christian Democrats) had great sympathy for the U.S. as a "liberal conservative" society and state. (Especially facing the alternatives: Fascism and Communism.)

[Potemkin]

Although it depends what we mean by "conservative". If we go so far as "quasi-reactionary" that is certainly the case. Many people who would naturally side with "conservatives" in Europe (Christian Democrats) had great sympathy for the U.S. as a "liberal conservative" society and state. (Especially facing the alternatives: Fascism and Communism.)

I would say that European Conservatives only came around to supporting the American system after WWII. The reactionary right-wing were utterly discredited following the collapse of fascism in 1945, and the de facto existence of American hegemony in western Europe meant that the ruling elites had no choice but to make their peace with American democracy and populism, which they had previously anathemised. Add to that the fact that American treasure and arms were pretty all that was preserving the European ruling elites from Communism, and it becomes understandable that they would have to reconcile themselves to the hitherto despised American democracy. It was not always thus, of course: in the 18th and 19th centuries, the European ruling elite regarded the American system in the same way they later regarded the Soviet system - with horror and loathing, mingled with patrician contempt. After WWII, they no longer had the luxury of such arrogance.

[Fasces]

Heinlein, Zamyatin, and Lewis also come to mind.

[Potemkin]

I would dispute that Zamyatin was right-wing. Before the Revolution, he had joined the Bolshevik Party before it became fashionable to do so. He left the Party before it rose to power in 1917, and later became a critic of its illiberalism, but his political allegiance after his brief flirtation with Bolshevism was always to a centre-left liberalism. Zamyatin had spent several years in England before the Revolution, training as an engineer, and he was profoundly influenced by English liberalism; indeed, this became the main basis for his later opposition to the Bolsheviks, despite his earlier support. Zamyatin has been co-opted by the right-wing, of course, but this is hardly his fault.

[Fasces]

I suppose.

[Potemkin]

You suppose?

Anyhoo, I've always found it amusing how Heinlein was co-opted by the left-wing hippies in the 60s, in the same way that centre-left writers like Orwell or Zamyatin have been co-opted by the right-wing. Can you grok it, man?

[Fasces]

A good story, even if stolen by acid-drinking hippies.

On Zamyatin, what you say has merit. I do not pretend to be an expert on that author, beyond We and an essay or two against communism I have read.

[Potemkin]

Zamyatin was briefly my favourite writer, back when I was a callow anti-Communist 19 year old, so I read almost everything he'd written which was then available in English. You never stood a chance.

[Cookie Monster]

Which criteria should be used to differentiate right-wing artists and authors from those who are not right-wingers.

The class which they support or some other criteria?

[Potemkin]

Which criteria should be used to differentiate right-wing artists and authors from those who are not right-wingers.

The class which they support or some other criteria?

Not really; that criterion would fit someone like Wyndham Lewis, but not someone like Heinlein, for example. Basically, any writer who explicitly opposed communism or socialism would qualify as 'right-wing'. Of course, this means that even 'democratic socialists' like George Orwell would be categorised as 'right-wing', so even that is problematic....