[Steve_American]

"The 4th Turning" is a prophetic book. The theory is that history goes in cycles. There are 4 generations, each of about 20 years, so about 80 years to a full cycle. In America the last 3 cycles have ended with the Am. Rev, the Civil War, and the Great Depression & WWII. D-Day was that crisis point.

I hope that the election of 2024 is the crisis this time.

In the last cycle, in 1929 the national mood was "I've got mine, get yours, you're not my problem"; that attitude is back now. In 1945 at the end of WWII the national mood was "If we work together, we can do anything, even walk on the Moon."

We need to get back to that togetherness mood. Climate change will give us no choice.
. . Well, there is another choice. "Every man for himself." That would be a violent, chaotic, luck-dependent way to survive. Nothing but food would be produced. Slavery would return.
. . Note, I said "himself". I said that because women would not be able to compete. They would become total dependents. In the violent world parents will be killed very often. Women will often be on their own, and so fail to compete.
. . Remember, I'm talking about after the real chaos from climate change starts. Food riots and total societal breakdown.

I'm calling on all Progressives and other good Americans to make sure that the authoritarian Repubs don't win many races in 2024. We need a blowout. We need to win by so much that we can get 67 votes in the Senate. We need to flip more states to Dem control.

Ideally, Progressive would have been organizing this summer to be ready for the primary election season, and as a result nominate many Progressives. I don't see much sign of that. I suppose there is still time.

I'm old and dying. This isn't for me. It's for you and your children. It is up to you. VOTE!

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[B0ycey]

Ideally, Progressive would have been organizing this summer to be ready for the primary election season, and as a result nominate many Progressives. I don't see much sign of that. I suppose there is still time

This is the problem. Nominate Progressives? FUCK THAT! Progressives might be on the opposite side of the spectrum to the MAGAs, but thet play the same damn cards as them. They spread the same type of hate, cause just as many riots, promote the same type of bigotry, break the law, disrupt society, and ruin society by promoting their hatred as must as the MAGAs. What America needs is a new party. But given that isn't really an option, America just needs to elect the right people. Just look at the values the candidate has, not the ribbon they have. There are just as many morons in the Democrats as there are in the Republican party. And whoever has the least amount of morons, gets the most seats. Time the parties start vetting better IMHO.

[Steve_American]

This is the problem. Nominate Progressives? FUCK THAT! Progressives might be on the opposite side of the spectrum to the MAGAs, but thet play the same damn cards as them. They spread the same type of hate, cause just as many riots, promote the same type of bigotry, break the law, disrupt society, and ruin society by promoting their hatred as must as the MAGAs. What America needs is a new party. But given that isn't really an option, America just needs to elect the right people. Just look at the values the candidate has, not the ribbon they have. There are just as many morons in the Democrats as there are in the Republican party. And whoever has the least amount of morons, gets the most seats. Time the parties start vetting better IMHO.

IMHO, there were very few riots caused by Progressives.

Some BKM protests were turned into riots by right wing agitators. The real Progressives don't riot.

MLK was for non-violence. So, are current Progressives.

Right wingers carry guns into state capitol buildings and to peaceful protests.
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[B0ycey]

IMHO, there were very few riots caused by Progressives.

Some BKM protests were turned into riots by right wing agitators. The real Progressives don't riot.

MLK was for non-violence. So, are current Progressives.

Right wingers carry guns into state capitol buildings and to peaceful protests.
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That is like saying the real MAGAs don't riot. Also, there was no coup or destruction going on with the Capital riots. Just a bunch of idiots who didn't know what to do when they got into the capital building but take selfies. But whatever. I don't support Trump and think he is too decisive to be president so I don't actually care about the MAGAs. What I do care is people thinking the progressives are any better or that America will be better with them in power. There are some very good candidates for the Democrats and people should elect them. And there are terrible ones that people should not. The same is true for the Republicans. Although what people really should do is vote for the Independent candidates. If enough people can see through the BS of the two party system by supporting and electing Independents, America could be saved from their current destiny of self imposed destruction of division and hatred. If they just elect the two extremes of ideology, they will continue down the road of division and more riots and hatred will ensue.

[Steve_American]

That is like saying the real MAGAs don't riot. Also, there was no coup or destruction going on with the Capital riots. Just a bunch of idiots who didn't know what to do when they got into the capital building but take selfies. But whatever. I don't support Trump and think he is too decisive to be president so I don't actually care about the MAGAs. What I do care is people thinking the progressives are any better or that America will be better with them in power. There are some very good candidates for the Democrats and people should elect them. And there are terrible ones that people should not. The same is true for the Republicans. Although what people really should do is vote for the Independent candidates. If enough people can see through the BS of the two party system by supporting and electing Independents, America could be saved from their current destiny of self imposed destruction of division and hatred. If they just elect the two extremes of ideology, they will continue down the road of division and more riots and hatred will ensue.

AFAIK, you and I disagree on a lot. At least you say you don't support Trump.

I do know that you believe in Neoliberal economics. So, you seem to support the current state of the US economy.

The voters have voted against Reagan's neoliberalism in every election since 1991 except in 2004, when they supported the wat time President. Clinton sold out for the money in the form of campaign contributions, so did Obama. The voters voted against Obama's sell out in2010, which was a huge mistake because it was a census year and so the Repuds took control of states and gerrymandered them to keep winning with a minority of the votes.

So, the problem is that the Dems are a center right party which supports corps and neoliberalism and the Repuds are a far-right party which does the same, but now is making a play to set itself up as the ruling party in a one-party state. Trump is saying he will send leading Dems to prison. In the thread about ending democracy, I posted about the Heritage Foundation's "Plan 2025" which call for a one-party state.

Voting for 3rd parties now will make it more likely the Repuds will win and they will implement Plan 2025 and end democracy.

OTOH, Progressives are a left leaning group. If they had power, they would not rule as a far left party. They would attack neoliberalism, which the voters have wanted since 1991. The voters support many progressive policies by 65% to 75% in the public opinion polls. Those policies are what we would get from a Progressive victory. At least some of them.
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[Robert Urbanek]

The cycle of history may date back to Egyptian mythology:

https://www.robertsurbanek.com/ra-cycle.html