[ingliz]

They found no links to Corbyn and the IRA

They found no links to Red Action or the IRA.

IRA

Sinn Fein is not proscribed under the laws of the United Kingdom.

Nationalist Socialist German Workers Party

The NSDAP was not socialist.

[B0ycey]

They found no links to Red Action or the IRA.

He made speeches for them and turned up to gatherings. As I said, you have read something online and got the wrong end of the stick confusing that with the IRA. Poor form, but I guess that is what happens when you do fast research. Besides, what's wrong with Red Action? They are a movement on the radical left, your ideology.

The NSDAP was not socialist.

Of course they were. They ran a state run war program and the Nazi slogan was on a red background. They are as much Socialist as Stalin and even emulated their prison camps. Do you think Volkswagen was a capitalist free market enterprise or something?



Besides, their voter base was German workers. They were on the left. The fact the party acted against their interest, very much as the Bolsheviks acted against the Soviets interests, doesn't change the fact the Left are indeed associated to these types of parties which was you claim that they weren't.

[ingliz]

their voter base was [...] workers.

So is the Lib Dems voter base.

Are you a fascist?

They were on the left.

It is our will that this state and this Reich shall endure through the coming millennia.

— Hitler

Triumph of the will: This is not Marxism-Leninism.

They ran a state run war program

So did the English.

[B0ycey]

So is the Lib Dems voter base.

Lib Dems weren't a German Party. They didn't even exist until the 80s. Besides, I don't blame the German workers for voting for the Nazis. They were suffering from inflation and desperate for change, very much like the Trump effect in 2016. But that doesn't change the fact that the Nazis are linked to Socialism. And even more important than that called themselves as such.

[ingliz]

Nazis are linked to Socialism

So does that mean, you being a self-avowed Social Democrat, that you are linked to Nazism?

Lib Dems weren't a German Party

So 'German' is the qualifier. Does that mean there's a racial component to your argument?

[B0ycey]

So does that mean, you being a self-avowed Social Democrat, that you are linked to Nazism?

No, it just means that your unsupported claim that the people of the Left aren't linked to far right parties is wrong. And what is worse is you said it is linked to Centrism which isn't even a fucking movement. It isn't my fault you need to learn some history.

[ingliz]

that the people of the Left aren't linked to far-right parties is wrong.

Only the Trotskyites.

Munira Mirza, Revolutionary Communist Party, being one for example.

And what is worse is you said it is linked to Centrism

No, I said it was linked to centrists (small 'c') such as yourself. The sort of people who wouldn't recognise a Social Democrat if s/he slapped them round the head with a wet radish.

[pugsville]

:?:
Of course they were. They ran a state run war program

As did Brittan and the USA.

:
and the Nazi slogan was on a red background.

So in the US "red states" = republicans there fore the republicans are Socialists,

:
They are as much Socialist as Stalin and even emulated their prison camps.

Prison camps are used by many sorts of governments of all sorts of ideologues, does Gitmo make the US socialist?

:
Do you think Volkswagen was a capitalist free market enterprise or something?

Many different types of social structure and ideologically can use state control and unfree markets. It's not restricted to or even required for socialism.

:
Besides, their voter base was German workers.

small Farmers and lower middle class is more accurate. the left wing vote held up thorough the wiemar republic the net communists.socialist left vote remained fairly constant, is was centrist, conservative parties whose vote collapsed.

:
They were on the left.

They desrbibed themsleves as rigt wing, there opponents and contempories described them as right wing.

[Potemkin]

They found no links to Corbyn and the IRA. Do better research please.

Nonetheless sorry, but clearly you don't know history. Look up the Nationalist Socialist German Workers Party.




Centrism is quite a new term. It certainly wasn't mainstream in the 70s and 80s. I wouldn't even call it a movement today. It is merely a term associated with the electorate who have beliefs on both the left and right. They aren't extremist. And you will find extremist associate with an ideology but their actions are identical in all but name. Hence the shoehorn.

[B0ycey]

They desrbibed themsleves as rigt wing,

You have a source for that claim.

[ingliz]

You have a source for that claim.

Actions speak louder than words.

Hitler and the Nazis outlawed socialism, and executed socialists and communists en masse, even before they started rounding up Jews. In 1933, the Dachau concentration camp held socialists and leftists exclusively. The Nazis arrested more than 11,000 Germans for "illegal socialist activity" in 1936.

[B0ycey]

Actions speak louder than words.

Hitler and the Nazis outlawed socialism, and executed socialists and communists en masse, even before they started rounding up Jews. In 1933, the Dachau concentration camp held socialists and leftists exclusively. The Nazis arrested more than 11,000 Germans for "illegal socialist activity" in 1936.

Sure, Hitler wasn't exactly a fan of Marxism, although of course Socialism takes a broad brush. But the quote wasn't in reference to Hitler nor his party but the people who voted for him - i.e the workers. Hitler as far as I am aware wouldn't have used the term for his party in any case. But I guess others might. But his supporters most definitely didn't call themselves right wing and anyone who makes that claim best provide a source.

[ingliz]

i.e the workers

Not in any Marxist sense.

Wealthy businessmen: frightened by the increase in support for the communists, they began to finance Hitler and the Nazis.

The middle-class: alarmed by the obvious failure of democracy, they decided that the country needed a strong government and gave their votes to Hitler.

Lower middle-class nationalists: they blamed the legacy of the Treaty of Versailles and reparations for causing the depression and so lent their support to the Nazis.

Rural areas: Nazi support was particularly strong amongst both middle-class shop keepers and artisans, farmers and agricultural labourers.

Lumpen: young unemployed men.

[B0ycey]

Not in any Marxist sense.

Perhaps. But they were in Maoism sense. Although I would say in Marxism sense too. It was after all the rural vote that got Hitler his voter base and as such it was the laborer vote not the upper class that voted for Hitler. It is true that nationalism swayed them, but isn't that just like Brexit (and Trumpism). Nationalism sides with both voters and isn't classist in any meaningful way. Which is perhaps why nationalism is more dangerous than ideology in historic risk and also explains why in practical terms, Hilter, Mussolini and Stalin ran their nations the same way.

[ingliz]

the rural vote

Peasants and kulaks?

[B0ycey]

Well, shall we just put this on the list of Tory fuckups? Simon Case, the man behind the inquiry of Christmas Party breaches, is now being accused of hosting a Whitehall Christmas party. And this one is hard to bluster. The invites actually say Christmas Party.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59701369.amp

[Potemkin]

Well, shall we just put this on the list of Tory fuckups? Simon Case, the man behind the inquiry of Christmas Party breaches, is now being accused of hosting a Whitehall Christmas party. And this one is hard to bluster. The invites actually say Christmas Party.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59701369.amp

Just when you think it couldn't get any better, it does.

[Political Interest]

But whoever the British people elect life won't really change. No one seems serious about change. They just repeat the same sloganeering, but whether it's reds or blues you get the same old policies, same economic policies, same foreign policies, same depressing sociological conditions. I don't understand it, they just talk in rhetoric and slogans but no ground work is ever done, there is nothing done to fix the country. Their manifestos pledge millions of pounds to vague directionless schemes, although Labour did have some very good ideas in their last manifesto (whehter they would have implemented them is another question).

You need to invest in the country, you need a government that has lots of reserves and can put money into infrastructure, public services, schools, hospitals and the armed forces. You can't achieve this through taxation because a country with a strong middle class is not going to accept having all their income taxed, you need to do it through state enterprises, indirect taxation and nationalisation. You need five year plans and sophisticated ways of filling the coffers without resorting to tax. People will not vote for taxes, especially not in a country like the UK. Put some real experts in charge, even if they're from abroad.

You also need some beautifying of the country a well. Buildings made of with no aesthetics are appalling, people should not be forced to live like this. It's as if British town planners lost all imagination. The Soviets faced a lot more destruction after WWII but they never built their cities to look as run down as British ones do. Urban planning and architecture in the UK are shocking.

[B0ycey]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59721801

So Frost resigns from Brexit minister and his replacement is... Liz Truss. I wonder what the thinking of this decision was considering she was a Remainer and has a big job as Foreign secretary?

Perhaps we will never know. But if you wanted to condition a Prime Minister and let them set their own direction for the country on the most divisive subject there is because you plan to step down next year, this very strange choice then begins to make some sense.

[pugsville]

Well Boris may well be caught 100% lying to parliament. This may be end of Boris.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... n-may-2020