[Maas]

Muslims are far better integrated here than they are in Europe.

I found Americans a bit more racist than Europeans.... so integration smintegration... it's how you get treated.

[Rei Murasame]

Can someone give me a good reason why we shouldn't be biased against Islam? If anything we are clearly not biased enough, since we have still allowed them to do just about anything they want.

This is excellent. I hope the West's intolerance of Islam continues to rise.This is excellent. I hope the West's intolerance of Islam continues to rise. 

You said it very bluntly, but I have to agree, we need to draw the line now.

[skinster]

How would you like the line drawn, Rei?

[GandalfTheGrey]

How would you like the line drawn, Rei?

clearly we need a return to the 'good ol days' when non-christians/non-whites knew their place. Damn this new-age tolerarnce - bring back the pogroms and the inquisitions and the genocides - clearly there wasn't enough of it over the last 1000 years.

[skinster]

We should ban Islam, and if anyone isn't happy about it, they're welcome to leave

[SomeRandom]

If we're going down that route, can we not just ban all religions and anyone who isn't happy about it can leave?

We can call them pilgrims.

[Rei Murasame]

clearly we need a return to the 'good ol days' when non-christians/non-whites knew their place.

I should just point out that I don't favour Christianity either, I don't spare it its due criticism, and it's not a race issue or anything like that. I'm fine with the participation and integration of all sorts of people, just I'm tired of this country back-pedalling and cowering every time a monotheist makes some sort of demand.

Adding Islam to the mix just makes for exaggerated symptoms of the same old problem, basically.

[skinster]

What cowering and demands are you talking about?

[Darth Corleone]

We are lucky that the Hispanics who dominate the immigrant scene here in the U.S. are all a bunch of good hearted, hard working Catholics. I'll tell ya, if the mass of humanity coming across the U.S. Southern border was anything but good Catholic boys, the U.S. would have nothing to do with it!

If they were angry Muslims like in Europe, the U.S. would be the poster child for political un-correctness...

And Hispanics have so many fewer bizarre demands on our culture: like special segregation for women in health clubs or refusing to touch pork products even -- though one is a grocery store cashier.





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[Fasces]

It is the Latino wave that will ultimately save the Catholic faith from utter domination by Islam in Europe.

[QatzelOk]

It is the Latino wave that will ultimately save the Catholic faith from utter domination by Islam in Europe.

Religious traditions and books aren't like football teams: they don't exist to try to dominate one another. They are supposed to be philosophical positions that ANYONE can adopt.

When religions are gang-affiliations that try to dominate other groups, they stop being religions and become just a series of gang-related practices. Like secret handshakes among bloods or crips.

[Gitana]

I am not entirely sure that most Americans, in our huge country, can grok the impact immigration and non-intergration can have in much smaller countries.

[Adalstef]

In some places in Sweden they are banned from flying the Swedish flag at schools.
It´s considered offensive to muslim students.

How screwed up is that ?

[Prosthetic Conscience]

I wonder how often Muslims in the US try to build minarets? They can get turned down:

NEW YORK: Apparently following in Switzerland’s footsteps, the New York City Department of Buildings has said that a proposed mosque with a four-story community center cannot have a minaret erected alongside. The ruling has left New York’s Muslim community frustrated and angered over what they have called “bigotry.”

Ramzy Ghazem, a 29-year-old American Muslim living in New York City, said the ruling is “another proof that America is not ready to understand and deal with Muslims in a tolerant matter.

“It is just a minaret, churches have steeples all over so why is a minaret a big deal?” he asked.

The Muslim mosque and community center’s building plans were submitted last July to the city, but were rejected after the zoning committee said no to the minaret. They were then resubmitted without the minaret and accepted.

Construction is under way at the moment, but the frustration, especially after Switzerland last fall banned all minarets from the country. American Muslims believed the United States would react differently.

“We thought our country would support us,” began Hussein, an Iranian-American who has lived his entire life in the states. “But, it looks like Americans still hold a grudge against its own citizens who are Muslims.”

Anti-minaret activists have distributed leaflets in the Brooklyn area urging people to say “no” to the proposal to erect the Islamic structure.

One of those individuals from the group Bay People said that “Islamic culture is not part of American society and we do not want to encourage hate,” showing the attitudes of many in the city.

The group has started an online petition against the mosque and minaret, and has already been signed by 300 residents. They accuse the mosque’s main sponsor the Muslim American Society (MSA) of “seeking to establish an Islamic state in America” and of being associated with organizations critical of Israel.

A recent Washington Post-ABC poll revealed that more than half of Americans hold negative views toward Islam.

Likewise, a Pew Research Center study discovered that American Muslims, which number around 7 million, are the most discriminated religious group in the country.

Mohamed Razvi, the founder and Executive Director of the Council of Peoples Organization (COPO), which according to their website, “is dedicated to building relations among diverse communities,” points the finger at the media for spreading misconceptions about the Muslim community

Razvi, a Brooklyn resident of Pakistani origin, believes Muslims should take a proactive approach to deal with the trend of fear about mosques in post 9/11 America.

http://bikyamasr.com/?p=9974

[Gitana]

In some places in Sweden they are banned from flying the Swedish flag at schools.
It´s considered offensive to muslim students.

I'd like to see proof of that assertion.

However, if true, it is a perfect example of a people allowing their liberties to be used against them.

[Thompson_NCL]

Religious traditions and books aren't like football teams: they don't exist to try to dominate one another. They are supposed to be philosophical positions that ANYONE can adopt.

When religions are gang-affiliations that try to dominate other groups, they stop being religions and become just a series of gang-related practices. Like secret handshakes among bloods or crips.

The problem is that Islam is not very tolerant of others, generally wherever Islam exists there is conflict with non-Muslims. So the only way for the other religions to survive is to BECOME like footballs teams or gangs. In south east asia for example, the minority muslims in many countries are attacking the native religions. Are the minority jews doing the same in say, Iran? Or the coptic christians in Egypt?

So, Islam is the problem here I'd say. Or more precisley, a cross section of Muslims.

[governmentcontract]

Wolfman - Certainly you have many examples of discrimination against Muslims occurring in the USA? If Europe and the USA are so intolerant of Muslims, as you seem to be implying with your "pot calling the kettle black" comment, certainly you can provide us with many examples? Why are Muslims still applying to immigrate en masse to the USA and Europe from primarily Muslims countries? If the USA and Europe are so intolerant of Muslims, certainly Muslims would try to avoid these lands?

[SomeRandom]

If Europe and the USA are so intolerant of Muslims, as you seem to be implying with your "pot calling the kettle black" comment, certainly you can provide us with many examples? Why are Muslims still applying to immigrate en masse to the USA and Europe from primarily Muslims countries? If the USA and Europe are so intolerant of Muslims, certainly Muslims would try to avoid these lands?

I think what he's actually implying is that there's intolerance to be found in the USA (the obsession with Obama's background for another example) and that's why it's hypocritical - not that the intolerance was so great it'd repel Muslims from going there. Let's be honest, looking at the state of some of the countries they're travelling from we'd probably have to be out there massacring them on the street before they'd be dissuaded from emigrating here. Either way, it doesn't change the fact there is quite a bit of anti-muslim sentiment in both places.

[governmentcontract]

If you're interested in being an agent for Wolfman - why don't you show me some examples (there must be many!) of intolerance towards Muslims in the USA or UK. Let's then put things in context and consider how other minorities/ethnicities/religions are treated in the USA and around the world. As far as I see there's very little anti-Muslim sentiment in the USA, although I don't pay too much attention to the UK. If anything, there's excessive political correctness (at least in the USA and Canada) surrounding issues that may be perceived as being associated with Muslims, in general.

Further, if we're going to examine tolerance of one country to a group of its citizens, why not examine the tolerance of a group of people to a particular country? Ever think there's any anti-Americanism, anti-UKism, anti-everythingism going on in predominantly Muslim countries? Is that worth analysis?

[Darth Corleone]

The problem is that Islam is not very tolerant of others, generally wherever Islam exists there is conflict with non-Muslims. So the only way for the other religions to survive is to BECOME like footballs teams or gangs. In south east asia for example, the minority muslims in many countries are attacking the native religions. Are the minority jews doing the same in say, Iran? Or the coptic christians in Egypt?

So, Islam is the problem here I'd say. Or more precisley, a cross section of Muslims.

Islam is such a flawed theology that it cannot generally compete with other more tolerant religious/philosophical viewpoints; just based on it's own oppressive message --- especially towards modern women. Without an opportunity for violent jihad, Islam, where it is the minority religion, must be relegated to taking on all the tactics of "victim status" in hopes of gaining sympathy among the mindless progressive mulitculturalists. How ironic that a beleif system based on nearly pure intolerance, in turn seeks tolerance from their guest cultures.

So I agree: Islam is generally at the heart of the problem. If Islam cannot tolerate ancient Hindu statues within the lands they now control; why would they ever tolerate living breathing people who don't happen to share their religion of aggression?









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