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Political issues and parties in Europe's nation states, the E.U. & Russia.

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By Euroman
#14136613
Europe, don't give up! Do your best!
User avatar
By Travesty
#14136618
Majority of British public wants to leave EU


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 52904.html

Monti presses Cameron for EU referendum
By James Fontanella-Khan and Alex Barker in Brussels, George Parker in London and Guy Dinmore in Rome
Italy’s prime minister has publicly urged David Cameron to call a decisive referendum on “the fundamental question” of whether Britain should remain in the EU.


http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/1e522faa ... z2G4oHwzYX

A referendum on Europe? Bring it on, for all our sakes


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ring-it-on



Off you go into the dustbin of history.
By Euroman
#14136910
Norway's foreign minister has urged the UK to assess the advantages of staying in the European Union, rather than consider leaving.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-2083020


Does the UK want to stay in the single market? Not that it matters, but does the UK want to be able to contribute to the laws that govern the single market?
Last edited by Euroman on 26 Dec 2012 08:30, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Travesty
#14136912
Well hold a referendum and let the people decide.

David Cameron has made a series of phone calls to other EU leaders ahead of crunch talks this week aimed at preventing Brussels budget growing even larger.
The Prime Minister is under increasing pressure to secure a freeze in spending from Tory rebels, the Labour party and the voting public.
But he faces an uphill struggle after it emerged EU officials have begun plotting to secure a budget deal without Britain.
The Prime Minister today insisted Brussels had to stop 'picking the pockets' of the public amid reports that EU officials and diplomats are in talks on the legal and financial viability of agreeing a new seven-year budget amongst the 26 member states excluding the UK.

Downing Street said the Prime Minister 'has been hitting the phones this weekend, speaking to several European partners as we continue to work constructively to find a deal on the EU's multi-annual budgetary cycle'.
His spokesman said Mr Cameron had spoken to his counterparts in France, Germany, Holland, Sweden, Denmark and Poland.
Speaking at the CBI conference in London today, Mr Cameron said challenging the EU's spending made him a 'good European'.
'I make absolutely no apologies for standing up strongly for Britain in Europe on some of our priorities,' the PM said.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ayers.html

Nah the EU wants to run the show without Britain.


Mr Davis, said: ‘There’s going to be a referendum, whoever’s in power in the next five years, because the British public will demand it – they won’t put up with it anymore.’
He added today that he was prepared to bet ‘a large sum of money’ on the UK being out of the EU within a decade if the government was unable to secure major changes on the relationship with Brussels.
User avatar
By Varax
#14137318
So Europhiles are starting to get a bit worried then? Truly, this is most excellent news.

Euroman wrote:Does the UK want to stay in the single market? Not that it matters, but does the UK want to be able to contribute to the laws that govern the single market?

Should the UK leave they will likely maintain trade and cooperation deals. This is after all what UKIPs position has been on what EU should have been and they’re the ones pushing for exit the hardest. The three major parties however still seem to be reluctant to leave - but public opinion on this issue is becoming hard to ignore so they play lip service to it.

The thing is though that UK is increasingly being treated as an outsider by the Eurocrats in Brussels so they’re already pretty alienated from the decision making process. Previously the Eurocrats have held firm in their insistence that no members leave in order to preserve their dream. But this quote from Monti shows that he and some of his Eurocrat buddies may have to come their senses and decided to cut some of their losses. A tipping point may eventually come though it will still take a number of years.
User avatar
By Rainbow Crow
#14137883
Conservatives and Ukip 'at war' as ComRes survey for The Independent finds 54 per cent want Britain to leave the EU provided it could keep its close trade relationship with the bloc

98% of Americans want to keep eating bacon provided that pigs don't suddenly become sentient.
User avatar
By Kaiserschmarrn
#14137890
[youtube]Kl1rRxG251s[/youtube]
Don't give up
'Cause you have friends
Don't give up
You're not beaten yet
Don't give up
I know you can make it good
By Decky
#14138021
Don't give up
'Cause you have friends
Don't give up
You're not beaten yet
Don't give up
I know you can make it good


The EU is an empire, it has nothing to do with friendship and everything to do with taking everything that the rest us have carting it to Germany and leaving the rest of us shivering and naked while the Teutons drink Beer and watch cabaret.
User avatar
By Kaiserschmarrn
#14138099
We all need a big hug once in a while, even the EU.
Rest your head
You worry too much
It's going to be alright
When times get rough
You can fall back on us
Don't give up
Please don't give up
By Decky
#14138102
Even though large tracts of Europe and many old and famous States have fallen or may fall into the grip of the EU and all the odious apparatus of Brussels rule, we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender,
User avatar
By SE23
#14138130
I can't see the European Union lasting for long, best bet is if they scrap it and settle for a European Economic commission, that maybe waits another 20 or so years before considering a single currency. Ideologically it will never work out, perhaps the European middle classes can join hands and sing for a one Europe, but most ordinary Europeans have too much of a strong affiliation to their communities, country, family, local religion etc, and won't be voting for issues affecting Germans if say they are French.
The United States Of America was only successful because the original American's were killed off and replaced with newly arrived immigrants who were starting a new life purposely in a new nation. Perhaps this is along the same lines of what that chief commissar was suggesting when talking about undermining national homogeneity, as that is the only way in which ideologically the EU could work out. Hopefully this wouldn't be the case because it would be a direct xenophobic act, that fails to recognise the diversity of Europe that should be preserved. It seems though that these Capitalists and Europhiles won't be satisfied til we are living in a Post Modern/Post materialist Orwellian nightmare.
With all fairness i can see where Europhiles are getting at, and it is completely a malovelent intention in some cases it is actually very benevolent. I just don't trust leaders and governments enough, to continue down the path of further centralisation and federalisation, specifically in a continent like Europe that has done fine for a while now without this interference. Take in mind the European Union we see today is very different to the one created in the aftermath of the Second World War. This new version that spawned from the early 90's is very different, and ideologically driven, rather than being a simple unitary tool and economic measure to prevent isolationism. Saying this we are proceeding into a globalised world, which is smaller than ever before, there is no denial in that, just we should be careful that we don't run into something that we regret too soon.
By Euroman
#14138262
This thread, to be clear, is about Europe. I was thinking of all European countries, hence I haven't called this thread "EU!" Apparently anything Europe related (which is more than 27 countries) is an invitation by some British people to bag on the EU.


Just some advice, the way you come of is as very needy. I never understood British people who go to pro-EU or Europe related threads and shout how they want to take the UK out of the EU. See, it's not our (non-UK countries and people) decision to make. However, what I think it really is is you guys want attention. Kind of like a needy or attention seeking child that is threatening to run away from home or starve itself to death unless it gets something that it wants. I think the UK wants more prestige and recognition. However, the UK is just a shadow of its former self. And the reason why EU officials are ignoring your PM right now is is because you guys are being just so needy and pathetic.


Rather than finding constructive ways to solve the EU's problems, you guys are threatening to run away from home. This is why no one wants to talk to you. Anyway, good luck running away. If you want to continue trading with the EU, you will have to do so by the EU's terms and conditions. Just ask Switzerland and Norway. Cheerios.
User avatar
By Ombrageux
#14138387
I have to say it wasn't clear to me exactly what you were cheering Europe about!
By Thompson_NCL
#14138455
Euroman wrote:This thread, to be clear, is about Europe. I was thinking of all European countries, hence I haven't called this thread "EU!" Apparently anything Europe related (which is more than 27 countries) is an invitation by some British people to bag on the EU.


Just some advice, the way you come of is as very needy. I never understood British people who go to pro-EU or Europe related threads and shout how they want to take the UK out of the EU. See, it's not our (non-UK countries and people) decision to make. However, what I think it really is is you guys want attention. Kind of like a needy or attention seeking child that is threatening to run away from home or starve itself to death unless it gets something that it wants. I think the UK wants more prestige and recognition. However, the UK is just a shadow of its former self. And the reason why EU officials are ignoring your PM right now is is because you guys are being just so needy and pathetic.

Rather than finding constructive ways to solve the EU's problems, you guys are threatening to run away from home. This is why no one wants to talk to you. Anyway, good luck running away. If you want to continue trading with the EU, you will have to do so by the EU's terms and conditions. Just ask Switzerland and Norway. Cheerios.


Not all Britons are anti-EU.

Some are pro-EU.
Some who oppose the EU are not opposing it altogether, but fear a federal Europe and loss of sovereignty.
Others wish to just have a free trade area.
And some want to pull out all together

You seem to fail to appreciate this and lump everyone into the fourth group. I think you do this because you wish to create a bogey-man type character. It's easier to blame us than to face up to EU problems.

You also seem to ignore the fact not everyone in Europe is pro-EU. In fact many countries have a substantial cross-section of their populace who want out of the EU. In fact according to some surveys, the EU has more support in the UK than the Czech Republic! Not to mention Spain or Greece.

Finally, do you honestly think most Brits give a shit what you or the EU thinks? We don't.
Last edited by Thompson_NCL on 29 Dec 2012 21:45, edited 1 time in total.
By michael3
#14138457
I've never met a 'European'. I've met Englishmen and French, and Germans, and I even marvelled at seeing a Russian once, so I know they exist...But I never met a 'European'.
By Euroman
#14138729
Ombrageux wrote:I have to say it wasn't clear to me exactly what you were cheering Europe about!



It's meant to be open ended really. Or if you like, cheer Europe on for whatever you want. My inspiration is the coming of 2013 and you know, new year's resolutions. I believe new year's resolutions should be practical, like learning a new skill or fixing an existing problem. For me, I am going to learn at least 1 programming language. If I can, my goal is to learn 3 for 2013. Currently I know zero.


If some people decide to be Debby Downers, then what can I do? I am serious though, if they want to take the UK out of the EU, they just need to go to their government and ask for it. That could be their new year's resolution. It has nothing to do with yelling at me. ;)


I mean it's about time... I have been hearing this "UK WILL RUN AWAY FROM HOME" nonsense since 2007 or earlier.
User avatar
By Kaiserschmarrn
#14138737
As far as I'm concerned, the only reason why Europe needs cheering up is the eurozone which is obviously closely linked to the EU. Most countries in Europe are great for many different reasons and they are doing quite well (eurozone woes aside).

At any rate, why 'Don't give up'? What is it exactly that Europe shouldn't give up? It sounds like you think Europe is in great difficulties.
By Euroman
#14138745
I was thinking more along the lines of globalization and not so much the Eurozone (which also is a victim of globalization). Did you know for example that there are Chinese sweatshop workers producing Gucci in Italy, for Gucci (all legal)? I think the Italians could pick themselves up with some really good new year's resolutions. That's just an example. There could be many things one could do to improve Europe.
User avatar
By Kaiserschmarrn
#14138748
Fair enough, Euroman. Things can always be improved, I suppose.

This thread has turned out to be about the UK because Travesty (probably by accident) has posted about the UK referendum, by the way. Otherwise it would just be your post, my youtube clip and Decky's tirades against Germany. :)
By Euroman
#14138779
If there was one thing you would like to see Europe to do improve itself (could be whole of Europe, EU or a particular country), what would you like to see happen Kaiser? I am keen to hear your point of view.
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