[Baff]

I reject the idea of Europe as a civilisation.
There are many civilisations in Europe.

Not just one.
We are not one identity. We are many. Not one people. We are many.

[Dr Cosmo]

Looking to Mutti
The Economist

[Harmattan]

What a stupid narrative. Not only Merkel never had such power, but if she ever dares to play the führerin role she will definitely kills the EU.

If anything she is the undertaker of the EU: she stabbed the EU repeatedly and vigorously during the financial and monetary crises of the past years, systematically obstructing the solutions and cooking a bigger and longer global crisis. The more recent prompt for millions of refugees to come and swarm her neighbors right before she closed her borders was only the cherry atop of the cake.


The push towards a stronger Europe is not driven by Merkel or Germany, it has been a common wish of many European actors for even before Merkel was in power. Europe does not work? Europe is endangering stability and economy? Europeans are sick of Europe? Feed them with more Europe! And call neo-Nazis all those who will oppose this insanity, and mock them as ignorant trashes.

[Dr Cosmo]

but if she ever dares to play the führerin role she will definitely kills the EU.

Germany´s EU foreign policy dogma was always led by consensus seeking solutions. This approach is mostly ingrained through a domestic necessity as well. Remember: Germany is a Federal Republic. The strong Bundesländer (states) also wield power. So the German government is a trained consensus seeker by default.

Historically, as you are probably aware off, France and Germany (often with BeNeLux and Italy) always formed an axis in important inner EU politics.

[The Sabbaticus]

^ what a joke. More like seeking consensus after she had issued her unilateral dictates. Her tell-tale hubris and petulance came to the fore in her reaction to 'Brexit'. Also, it isn't an axis when the BeNeLux is just an assortment of financial lackeys/lapdogs. And the relationship between France and Germany is fractious at best. Even the French are now wary of the meddling incompetence of 'Mutti Merkel the Patron Saint of the Chosen People (Syrians)'.

[Dr Cosmo]

[Dr Cosmo]

[Albert]

@Dr Cosmo

Hey have you guy heard the new GER national anthem?

All rise for the anthem of GER (German European Reich) previously know as EU.

[Varilion]

I have to say what i think about those polls (keep mind that i am Italian):

1. Growing diversity doesn't make my country a better place. Also because when we speak about diversity, it doesn't mean to make my country more Swiss, more French or more German; what growing diversity noways entails, is making my country more Egyptian, Moroccan, Chinese, Pakistani or in the best case Rumanian.

In Italy we use the word "Extracomunitario" as kind of insult. It's a word coming out of bureaucracy, literally it means "citizen coming from outside the EU", but in the daily usage it has assumed a really negative aura. And when someone reads it, he will never thinks to someone from USA or Switzerland (though, by definition..... )

4. In some countries religion is felt as part of the national culture or identity, even by those which are matter of fact agnostic or atheist. Can you be a real Italian without being Christian (or of christian heritage)? No. Same goes apparently for Greece, Poland and Hungary (what these countries have in common is that you cannot find them on the geographic map of 1815 - thus the national identity is much more deeply related to traditions and religion than to the passport). Some other countries despite being (or having been) rather religious have developed a national identity not related to the religion (e.g. Spain)

5. We know our neighbors better;)
OK, besides jokes, there are different reasons, not only related with the Muslim immigrants themselves (i strongly doubt they create problems in Poland - how many are there?).
-Above all: we have the feeling that they hate us.
-We have often an historical perspective in which the Saracens are...well...the Saracens. And if you switch on the TV yu have the impression that not much as changed.
-Leftists and liberals are continuously saying every time that they open their mouth that we have to give up our culture to accept these new "brothers". This really doesn't help.

[Rugoz]

I have to say what i think about those polls (keep mind that i am Italian):

1. Growing diversity doesn't make my country a better place. Also because when we speak about diversity, it doesn't mean to make my country more Swiss, more French or more German; what growing diversity noways entails, is making my country more Egyptian, Moroccan, Chinese, Pakistani or in the best case Rumanian.

In Italy we use the word "Extracomunitario" as kind of insult. It's a word coming out of bureaucracy, literally it means "citizen coming from outside the EU", but in the daily usage it has assumed a really negative aura. And when someone reads it, he will never thinks to someone from USA or Switzerland (though, by definition..... )

4. In some countries religion is felt as part of the national culture or identity, even by those which are matter of fact agnostic or atheist. Can you be a real Italian without being Christian (or of christian heritage)? No. Same goes apparently for Greece, Poland and Hungary (what these countries have in common is that you cannot find them on the geographic map of 1815 - thus the national identity is much more deeply related to traditions and religion than to the passport). Some other countries despite being (or having been) rather religious have developed a national identity not related to the religion (e.g. Spain)

5. We know our neighbors better;)
OK, besides jokes, there are different reasons, not only related with the Muslim immigrants themselves (i strongly doubt they create problems in Poland - how many are there?).
-Above all: we have the feeling that they hate us.
-We have often an historical perspective in which the Saracens are...well...the Saracens. And if you switch on the TV yu have the impression that not much as changed.
-Leftists and liberals are continuously saying every time that they open their mouth that we have to give up our culture to accept these new "brothers". This really doesn't help.

So you're Italian. From what I can tell Italy is fine with the current situation as long as it can funnel refugees to the North. Unless France, Switzerland and Austria close their borders nothing will happen.

[Varilion]

If you want to talk about the refugee invas....ehm crysis, Italy might be fine with the current situation, but i am not.
-There should be a common EU policy of registration and splitting of the refugees, with shared costs.
-EU should take responsibility over the external borders.

And let's not talk about the Turkish deal....

[Rugoz]

If you want to talk about the refugee invas....ehm crysis, Italy might be fine with the current situation, but i am not.
-There should be a common EU policy of registration and splitting of the refugees, with shared costs.
-EU should take responsibility over the external borders.

And let's not talk about the Turkish deal....

It's up to Italy to control its borders. I'm not sure why you think the EU will do a better job at that.