[The Clockwork Rat]

I am sorry to correct you,

You're welcome. Unfortunately it was he who used the comparison of countries in the first place. If the majority of western culture thinks that Europe is pretty much central, is that not then the case? I find it hard to be reasonable with Zerogouki since he starts out a very biased opinion on reality in the first place.

[PBVBROOK]

Starting now, I'm going to keep track of how many times you've done this. I'll probably have the results in a few days to a week.

Knock yourself out skippy. I am glad I have such an effect on your life. You begin a thread slamming me then get all worked up when I call bullshit on you.

You are light work my friend. If you had an issue I would debate it. But you have yet to offer anything but a patently absurd assertion. Post your facts sport. Tell us WHY you think what you posted.

I am not going to count your Ad Homs. You aren't worth the time.

[ccdan]

If a government spent a huge chunk of GDP on the military and law-enforcement, but not a penny on social welfare programs, that would be pretty far right-wing by any normal standards, but left-wing by yours.

that's also LEFT WING! actually FAR LEFT! whenever a state has high taxes, that's a sign of leftism... only inferior and socialist people want to see others taxed so that their asses can be saved from various imaginary threats! americans are at least as socialist as europeans, just that their public spending is made on a bit different public services than those of the europeans'... americans want and get "state protection" for extremely ridiculous things, anything from "throwing a hamburger at someone" to "having sex below 18" or simply "having a boyfriend/girlfriend" below 18... all these, can "trigger" all sort of criminal procedures ranging from arrests to issuing all sorts of "restriction orders" to effective processes, sentences and serving prison terms... all these things are in place because of some inferior mentally ill people(but regarded as "normal" people by dishonest politicians), extremely similar to those who want to live as much as possible on unemplyment benefits and similar things...

[greysnow]

If the majority of western culture thinks that Europe is pretty much central, is that not then the case?

Saying that something is X can define it as X if we have the power of axiomatic definition. Do we? This is not a rhetorical question. In the realm of politics, does a majority of public opinion have the power to define what is and is not centrist, or any other position? Or is there an objective method? I know of no method to measure political orientation that doesn't at least have some bias built into it.

However, if we could find an objective method to measure Europe's "centricity", findings by this objective method could theoretically be at odds with public opinion. So, if the majority of western culture thinks that Europe is pretty centrist, this would only actually make Europe centrist if the thinking informed the being, i.e. if we leave this power of definition to public opinion. This might not be a bad idea, as it is the public that has to deal with political problems and needs a political language to do it; but on the other hand, if we don't conduct an actual poll to define the word, which has probably never been done, there is the danger of spreading bullshit, as no one is held to a standard of defining what he exactly means by "centrist", "leftist", "rightist" before they are allowed to use it in a public debate. I think it follows that these labels should only be used with a ton of salt and are often more obfuscating than helpful.

[Huntster]

Why do leftists assume that they're centrists?

So that they can feel like they're balanced instead of zealots.

[Socrates Johnson]

So that they can feel like they're balanced instead of zealots.

Have at it! Show that I'm (someone you consider to be a liberal) a zealot!

Is this sort of unsupported bullshit your best work?

[Huntster]

Are you a member of a political party?

[Zerogouki]

you are, from most perspectives, pretty far right-wing, so anyone will appear left-wing to you.

You're obviously not familiar with my contempt for religion and social conservatism in general, or my defense of animal and youth rights when such topics present themselves. People who are more familiar with my perspective usually peg me as a libertarian.

If the majority of western culture thinks that Europe is pretty much central

If the majority of western culture thinks that Europe is pretty much central

If the majority of western culture thinks that Europe is pretty much central

Therein lies the huge error in your line of reasoning. Western culture has succumbed quite a lot to environmentalism, feminism, globalism, etc. in recent decades. Countries around the rest of the world are generally a bit further right, except for the Commie ones.

[hannigaholic]

Holy shit, are you serious? The government consumes an entire HALF of the WHOLE GODDAMN ECONOMY? That's so completely beyond batshit insane that I don't even know where to begin... Why did we even bother saving these people from the USSR?

Well it's 36% in America. The 40%ers (Spain, Ireland, Germany, Poland...) aren't far away from that. Get some perspective.

[Zerogouki]

If you're familiar at all with anything that I post, you should know by now that I also consider the US government to be a bloated, festering leech of disturbing proportions. So thank you, but my perspective is just fine.

[PredatorOC]

My centre is creamy with a dash of nougat.

[ccdan]

You're obviously not familiar with my contempt for religion

if you oppose abortion, it's hard to believe that you're not influenced by religion...

Countries around the rest of the world are generally a bit further right, except for the Commie ones.

what countries? islamic countries? african countries? south american countries? yeah, the islamists at least, seem to be pretty "right" because they oppose abortion and just about anything related to sex... and they also strongly oppose feminism and don't give a shit on environmentalism

[hannigaholic]

If you're familiar at all with anything that I post, you should know by now that I also consider the US government to be a bloated, festering leech of disturbing proportions. So thank you, but my perspective is just fine.

The point being that despite Europe not having much of a larger government than the US, you seem shocked at its size.

And I still think it would be useful for you to define your 'objective' and 'reasonable' left-right spectrum. I suggested size of government, but you really need something better than "OMG extreme leftist smacktard!!!oneone111eleven" if you want to be taken seriously.

[Zerogouki]

The point being that despite Europe not having much of a larger government than the US, you seem shocked at its size.

Truth be told, I didn't know that the USG was 36% of our economy, either. I knew it was big, but damn.

And I still think it would be useful for you to define your 'objective' and 'reasonable' left-right spectrum. I suggested size of government, but you really need something better than "OMG extreme leftist smacktard!!!oneone111eleven" if you want to be taken seriously.

Far right: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Constitution Party of the USA.
Far left: Netherlands; Green Party of any country.

[The Clockwork Rat]

Try a bit of statistics. There's this term called "outliers". You might find it relevant.

[The Clockwork Rat]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliers
Read up. We tend not to pay much attention to the furthest in any direction, no matter what science you're engaged in.

[The Clockwork Rat]

You're complaining about Europe being slightly left. Left of what? You need to find a centre, an average as it were. You find the average by finding some system by which you can rate governments, analysing each one and then finding the mean. By this method you are bound to have outliers, governments that are so extreme in either direction that they upset the balance of everyone else. To stop this, you either partly or completely ignore them in your calculations. I think it has something to do with normal distribution.

[Zerogouki]

Left of what?

Global average?

I don't know a lot of third-world countries that are embracing environmentalism and gay marriage, and third-world countries do account for the majority of extant countries.

[hip hop bunny hop]

According the U.N. the #1 country for sustainable development is the Central African Republic.

[The Clockwork Rat]

I don't know a lot of third-world countries that are embracing environmentalism and gay marriage, and third-world countries do account for the majority of extant countries.

I mistakenly assumed we were talking about developed nations here. I think ELDCs have more on their mind. Nonetheless, check this out.

Also, we use weighting in statistics and those countries with more political clout would probably count more. Other countries might look at their successes and follow them.