[Stormsmith]

We have crown corps here that work very well. The ferry from Victoria to Vancouver is modern, lovely, and about 1/4th the cost of the ferry system from Dover to Calais, or anything Euroand comparible. It moves people and trainloads of goods on and off the island daily. No profit to speak of. Our Hydro-electric and Auto Insiurance provide the best at one of the lowest prices in N.A. Profits are reinvested in the companies or turned over to general revenues to lower everyone's tax rate. The liquor board puts about $750 million into general rev, forestry about $1.5 Billion. Our total population is 4 million. There's nothing wrong nor frightening about efficient, well run government corps, nothing to stop others from running businesses.

[Huntster]

And your immigration policies?

I'd like to sing your praises to millions of liberal Americans.

(BTW, as an Alaskan, I already know the answer, but please let everybody else know.......................)

[Figlio di Moros]

As a western NYer, I know, as well...

[Hot Choco]

There's nothing wrong nor frightening about efficient, well run government corps, nothing to stop others from running businesses.

I've nothing against the government running businesses, just as long as my tax money doesn't fund any part of it.

[Stormsmith]

And your immigration policies?

I'd like to sing your praises to millions of liberal Americans.

(BTW, as an Alaskan, I already know the answer, but please let everybody else know.......................)

What in the wide world of sports does this have to do with crown corps?
And, for the record, I am liberal, but the government that developed those crown corps was a conservative government. Some conservatives can see beyond myths and propaganda.

[PBVBROOK]

PVB, don't get caught up in this petty bullshit; you're right, leftists can and do have money, but strangely enough, those are often "champagne socialists". Too many among the rich left have a better bark than their bite.

Very true. And I am particularly hard on some of my friends who I refer to as "limousine liberals." I took a good friend apart the other day because he was crying about national health care but opposed a tax to pay for it. I also called a conservative co-worker on the fact that he espouses a private sector solution to health care while not providing any health care to his illegal alien maid and gardners.

[Huntster]

Huntster wrote:
And your immigration policies?

I'd like to sing your praises to millions of liberal Americans.

(BTW, as an Alaskan, I already know the answer, but please let everybody else know.......................)


What in the wide world of sports does this have to do with crown corps?

Who gets to enjoy it, who doesn't, and why.

And, for the record, I am liberal, but the government that developed those crown corps was a conservative government. Some conservatives can see beyond myths and propaganda.

And your immigration policies?

Liberal? Conservative? Consistent?

[Stormsmith]

Again, how does this relate to croiwn corps?

[Huntster]

Again, how does this relate to croiwn corps?

Again, who gets to enjoy it, who doesn't, and why.

Quote:
And, for the record, I am liberal, but the government that developed those crown corps was a conservative government. Some conservatives can see beyond myths and propaganda.

And your immigration policies?

Liberal? Conservative? Consistent?

[Gletkin]

You have a bigger voice in local governments than you do in national government

If it's "one adult, one vote" it doesn't really matter.
Maybe "townhall" type meetings would be easier but being a local authority does'nt automatically make you more accountable.

Local leaders can be just as charismatic...or intimidating (either way, avoiding accountability by controlling the people)....as national leaders.

There've been times when federal intervention was needed to break the corruption of state or local govt. entities.

[Goldberk]

Local leaders can be just as charismatic...or intimidating (either way, avoiding accountability by controlling the people)....as national leaders.

Yes but their contact with the public is immediate, they do not have the luxury of edited news presentations, measured newspaper articles etc, all vehicles for enhancing charisma.

[Gletkin]

Yes but their contact with the public is immediate

Which can magnify their charisma (or intimidation).
I've sort of had experience with this at a job a used to have. The place I worked at was small a local institution. When a friendship with a co-worker (we were friends before we became co-workers) went south, she decided to get me shitcanned by rallying other co-workers (who I thought were mutual friends) behind her to back up her claims against me. Didn't hurt her either that her position in the organization was more important than mine was.

Bottom line...power dynamics are the same at any level. Working for a small, more "personable" organization rather than a huge, "faceless" national or international organization didn't help one bit. She had more charisma and was better able to rally more support for her version of events.
I don't see why this should be any different for politicians and public officials at any level of government.

they do not have the luxury of edited news presentations, measured newspaper articles etc, all vehicles for enhancing charisma.

They do over local or state/province/whatever wide media.
As for the national or international media....play the "they're meddling outsiders who aren't from here and don't know shit about us" card.

[Huntster]

Again, how does this relate to croiwn corps?

Who gets to enjoy it, who doesn't, and why.

Quote:
And, for the record, I am liberal, but the government that developed those crown corps was a conservative government. Some conservatives can see beyond myths and propaganda.

And your immigration policies?

Liberal? Conservative? Consistent?

[Stormsmith]

You still havent shown a connection. Since you claim you know the answser to your own question, why ask me? You dont need me to give you some sort of segway, but I will tell you everyone gets to benefit from the crown corps:

Again, how does this relate to croiwn corps?

Who gets to enjoy it, who doesn't, and why.

[Huntster]

Quote:
Again, how does this relate to croiwn corps?

Who gets to enjoy it, who doesn't, and why.

Quote:
And, for the record, I am liberal, but the government that developed those crown corps was a conservative government. Some conservatives can see beyond myths and propaganda.

And your immigration policies?

Liberal? Conservative? Consistent?

You still havent shown a connection. Since you claim you know the answser to your own question, why ask me?

I wanted to know if you were familiar with Canada's immigration policy, whether you're a liberal or not, and if you think Canada's immigration policy is "fair" when compared to the U.S. immigration realities, where we are being pounded by liberals to even accept illegal immigrants.

The only people who can enjoy crown corporations are Canadian citizens (or First Nation citizens).

[Stormsmith]

I wanted to know if you were familiar with Canada's immigration policy, whether you're a liberal or not, and if you think Canada's immigration policy is "fair" when compared to the U.S. immigration realities, where we are being pounded by liberals to even accept illegal immigrants.

I am reasonably familiar with these policies, but I don't have the updates forwarded to my email addy for priority reading.

I am v confused. I can't see what they have to do with crown corps, nor can I see what they have to do with your policy on illegal immigration, although I just read within the last 7 days a CATO report saying that whilst illegals are a drain on your social safety net, on the whole, Cato felt, it was worth it because they work for peanuts which keeps down prices.This is the mindset that kept your boarders open under Bush and why Republican politicians supported amnesty, or a pathway to citizenshiphoodery, n'est pas?

The only people who can enjoy crown corporations are Canadian citizens (or First Nation citizens).

As to who benefits from CCs, of course Canadians do. We should. We bought and paid for them, (my point had been that governments can and do successfully run businesses) but note: there is an intricate system of ferries servicing the mainland/Vancouver island and out into the archepelago of islands off the shore, and some coastal towns ie, Powell River. Some of these systems run at a loss, others turn a profit. American exporters who market to these islands and northern coastal towns benefit from the low cost just as a Canadian business. I am sure I don't need to remind you of the benefits Alaska derives from our fish hatcheries.



First Nations are Canadian citizens.

[Huntster]

Huntster wrote:
I can't see what they have to do with crown corps, nor can I see what they have to do with your policy on illegal immigration, although I just read within the last 7 days a CATO report saying that whilst illegals are a drain on your social safety net, on the whole, Cato felt, it was worth it because they work for peanuts which keeps down prices.

So does this mean that you would be okay with illegal immigration to Canada so that others can enjoy the benefits of crown corporations like you?

Canada doesn't seem to like American immigration (unless you're a draft dodger).

Huntster wrote:
The only people who can enjoy crown corporations are Canadian citizens (or First Nation citizens).

As to who benefits from CCs, of course Canadians do. We should. We bought and paid for them, (my point had been that governments can and do successfully run businesses) but note: there is an intricate system of ferries servicing the mainland/Vancouver island and out into the archepelago of islands off the shore, and some coastal towns ie, Powell River. Some of these systems run at a loss, others turn a profit. American exporters who market to these islands and northern coastal towns benefit from the low cost just as a Canadian business.

How does your crown corporation ferry system differ from the Alaska Marine Highway System, which is also subsidized by Alaska state government, and likely the U.S. government as well?

Illegal aliens can use our ferry. Can illegal immigrants to Canada use yours without legal hassle?

I am sure I don't need to remind you of the benefits Alaska derives from our fish hatcheries.

And vice versa?

But Alaskan hatcheries are primarily funded by aquaculture associations formed by the commercial fishing industry, so if Alaskan fisherman harvest Canadian salmon, they're getting "government" salmon, and when BC fishermen catch Alaskan salmon, they're stealing from private entities.

Fair enough?

First Nations are Canadian citizens.

Don't they have "different" ID cards?

Sorta' like Christians in Lebanon (at least, the surviving Christians in Lebanon)?

[Stormsmith]

I just read your last post. I still fail to see the connection between our immigrations policies and crown corps. I further don't understand, why you're going on about illegal immigration (yours or ours), and crown corps. Please illluminate before I respond further.

[Huntster]

1) Socialist benefits are primarily for the society that institutes them

2) Socialism is considered liberal

3) Broad and liberal immigration policies in the United States is considered liberal

4) Canada is commonly considered more liberal than the United States

5) Canada's immigration policy isn't as "friendly" to Yankees as US immigration policy is to Canadians

6) You have called yourself "liberal"

7) I have asked your opinion of Canadian immigration policy, so that others (especially others who are "liberal") can immigrate to Canada to enjoy the blessings of liberal life like crown corporations

I await your answer

[Stormsmith]

The conversation was, Claim: state run enterprises are no way to do business in a democracy. Rebuttal: They can work well, to the benefit of many.

you are hijacking the thread. In light of your recent post to PBVB, I end this conversation as I lack the belief you are arguing in good faith.