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#33105
Mid-East's 'virtual' peace deal

An unofficial or "virtual" agreement between moderate Israelis and Palestinians has raised hopes of an eventual settlement, but also a storm of protest from Israeli Government ministers.
The agreement was initialled in Jordan over the weekend and there are plans for it to be signed in Geneva next month.

The "Geneva Accord", as Israeli papers are calling it, has no hope of being put into effect in the foreseeable future.

The present reality is one of conflict not compromise, but the document does provide an alternative vision and something to which those who want to compromise can cling.

It also provides an alternative to the current negotiating strategy embodied by the so-called roadmap.

The roadmap seeks to create secure conditions under which a settlement could take place.

The Geneva agreement reverses that, by agreeing on a settlement first, which should then lead to peace.

The agreement settles the outstanding issues, including the right of return for Palestinian refugees, the control of Jerusalem and Israeli settlements on the West Bank.

Its basic framework looks like this:


Palestinians would recognise Israel, which would withdraw to its 1967 borders with one or two agreed land transfers

Palestinians would in effect give up the right of return for the tens of thousands of refugees who left or were expelled during previous wars. A few might go back, but only with Israeli agreement. Others would get some compensation

Jerusalem would be divided administratively though not physically. The most sensitive site, the Temple Mount as Jews call it, or the Noble Sanctuary as Muslims know it, would be under Palestinian sovereignty. An international force would guarantee access for visitors. Israelis would retain the Western Wall (the so-called Wailing Wall) below

Israel would keep some settlements, especially around Jerusalem, but the large settlement of Ariel in the centre of the West Bank would be included in the Palestinian area

The Palestinian state would be demilitarised.
The key compromises seem to be over the right of return and the division of Jerusalem.

By giving up their cherished "right of return", Palestinians would abandon hopes of establishing a unitary state of Palestine.

By formally giving up the Temple Mount, Israelis would accept the division of Jerusalem which they have always opposed.

The negotiators

The people behind this document are familiar ones, known from earlier attempts at marking out the way forward, especially the Oslo agreement.

On the Israeli side, the former Labour Minister, Yossi Beilin, is the main figure, but there are others including Amram Mitzna, who briefly led the Labour Party, and author Amos Oz.

Yossi Beilin commented that his critics would say that "this is a bad agreement, that we caved in and gave away everything, but one thing they won't be able to say is that there is no [negotiating] partner."

On the Palestinian side, the leading figure is Yasser Abed Rabbo, a former Palestinian minister who called this "the start of a new era".

The Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat, is said to have been kept informed, though his level of support is not clear.

'Impossible'

But the "new era" is a long way off.

Israeli ministers have lined up to denounce the accord.

The Foreign Minister, Silvan Shalom, said: "There is a government in Israel and everything else is virtual at best."

The Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon himself said: "There is a roadmap and it is not helpful to make people think there might be something else."

Indeed, the thinking in the Israeli Government seems to be more along the lines expressed by one minister, Ehud Olmert, a former mayor of Jerusalem, last week.

He said that an agreement with Palestinians was "impossible" and that "we are much closer to a unilateral process that will create irreversible facts".

That means that Israel alone would decide where its borders should be.

The gulf between that view and the one enshrined in the unofficial accord is wide, perhaps unbridgeable.

By ihavenoname
#33151
To have moderate Israelis (of which there are a great deal)
you need moderate Palestinians- go find me some and come back.
User avatar
By Siberian Fox
#33161
"ihavenoname"

That is a non-post. If ever I saw one.

If you do not have anything useful, constructive or interesting to say then don't say it.

Are you here to debate? Or, like "Hollywood_jew" are you just here because you are a racist who wants to slander Muslims at every opportunity? Because if it is the latter you should leave this forum. PoliticsForum.org is run for people to debate in an intellectual manner, it is not here for people to waste others time with pointless trolling one-liners.

If all you want to do is troll then go to an AOL chat-room.
By Efrem Da King
#33192
Now thats hardly fair SF. ihavenoname is correct, its all fine and well to have israeli moderates, but they too will find it hard to make peace with people whose only aim in life is to wipe out your race, by exploding themselves one your childs school bus.
User avatar
By naked_turk
#33199
Ahh comon guys, don't you see that for once a bunch of Israeli *moderates* tried their hand at negotiating, and it worked?

Too often (err, always) we have Israeli extremists that have nothing in mind except making it look like they tried for peace, while making it impossible for Palestinians to accept the deal. Its easy to say "The Palestinians rejected" when you give them nothing they want, isn't it? It looks like this time the negotiations were actually legitimate.

Please, noname and efrem, the very fact that the Palestinians have agreed to this deal proves wrong your belief that they all just want to kill Jews and destroy Israel. And there is also the little fact that now the Palestinians have agreed, and you have Israel still saying peace is impossible!
By ihavenoname
#33225
[MB Edit: You'd better support that claim before making it]
By Efrem Da King
#33382
naked_turk wrote:Ahh comon guys, don't you see that for once a bunch of Israeli *moderates* tried their hand at negotiating, and it worked?

Too often (err, always) we have Israeli extremists that have nothing in mind except making it look like they tried for peace, while making it impossible for Palestinians to accept the deal. Its easy to say "The Palestinians rejected" when you give them nothing they want, isn't it? It looks like this time the negotiations were actually legitimate.

Please, noname and efrem, the very fact that the Palestinians have agreed to this deal proves wrong your belief that they all just want to kill Jews and destroy Israel. And there is also the little fact that now the Palestinians have agreed, and you have Israel still saying peace is impossible!




When? What? Where? Who?

Please tell me WTF your talking about, because last time I looked the fighting was still going.
By ihavenoname
#33424
ihavenoname wrote:[MB Edit: You'd better support that claim before making it]



Excuse me mr. I am a Moderator and dont know how to read....

The "plan' in question has been endorsed by NO ONE. Not the Israeli Govt nor the PA- and especially not Hamas and IJ and the PFLP and Fatah.. Please dont erase my posts in the future unless they are personal attacks. If some one would like to challenge my posts then let them and I will be more than happy to back up my claims with sources. I've had enough of MLA citation for one lifetime- trust me when I post something that isnt just my opinion that it is true.
User avatar
By MB.
#33461
I' d rather not take your word for it.

If I consider your post to be pointless and likely to only cuase a flame war, than its going- and thats final.
User avatar
By naked_turk
#33583
Efrem Da King wrote:When? What? Where? Who?

Please tell me WTF your talking about, because last time I looked the fighting was still going.


I never said the fighting is over. I only stated that the Palestinian leaders certainly know about this "deal" and have "accepted" it by not objecting to it. But Israel on the other hand is still saying that the "deal" is invalid because the Palestinians are terrorists and peace is impossible!

(well technically it IS ivalid... but lets look beyond that for a second. Israel didn't even consider it!)
By Efrem Da King
#33834
Are you gonna back up your clame that israel didn't even consider it?
User avatar
By naked_turk
#34296
I dont need to. Unless if you've been living under a rock for the past week, you would already know these people were branded as traitors by the Israeli government.
By Efrem Da King
#34350
Which means that israeli gov never even thought about it how??

Well they were/are traitors.

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