[The American Lion]

Victory for Iraq and for America!




April 9: U.S. Marines provide cover fire as other Marines advance on the headquarters of the Fedayeen in Baghdad.

[Siberian Fox]

I'm going to move this topic to the Middle East forum.

... if nothing else it will make a refreshing change from hearing people argue about Israel.

[jaakko]

One picture speaks a thousand words:



Oh, and by the way the man in that one pic kissing the american soldier was photographed doing the same on another soldier in another, far away city. Possibly a sign of this being arranged... ?

[The American Lion]

I saw it live on TV. That photo proves nothing. Unless the evil Neo-Conservatives that control the Govenment can edit live tv!

Six months after US troops tore down Saddam Hussain's statue in central Baghdad another has replaced it, a nameless figure holding high a sun and crescent moon. It was supposed to symbolise a new dawn, a new Iraq.
http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/news. ... leID=99767

More than 13,000 reconstruction projects completed.

More than 40,000 police on duty nationwide, including 7,000 in Baghdad, compared with virtually none at the war's end.

A first battalion of a retrained Iraqi army graduated from basic training and on active duty.

Twenty-two universities and 43 institutes and colleges open, along with almost all primary and secondary schools.

An increase in deliveries of pharmaceuticals from 800 tons in May to 12,000 tons.

Clearing of 8,000 miles of irrigation canals.

Establishment of 170 newspapers.
http://www.boston.com/dailynews/282/wor ... _mi:.shtml

[naked_turk]

I would post my set of pictures of the war in Iraq... But it would just be too gruesome and inapropriate. I understand not everyone likes to see dead women and children with half their bodies missing.

[Tovarish Spetsnaz]

Hehe...as Jakkoo points out...that man was seen in Umm Qasr on the first day of the war...he was seen in Baghdad while pulling down Saddam's statue...and than he appears in this photo kissing an American soldier in some other part of Iraq. Either he has a lot of twins he doesn't know about...or all these events were staged for the cameras.

And he must also have a twin in the US becasue that man was also seen in the US at a US military yraining camp before the war where the US trained exiled Iraqis to serve them in Iraq.

I saw it live on TV. That photo proves nothing. Unless the evil Neo-Conservatives that control the Govenment can edit live tv!

Yes I saw it on TV too. The camera NEVER zoomed out to show us the entire crowd...they always focused on a small section...to give the impression it was a lot of people. But even on TV you could see that half of the people there were US soldiers and journalists...and this aerial shot shows there weren't even more than 50 people there...

More than 13,000 reconstruction projects completed.

Yep...all the bathrooms in the Ministry of Oil were fixed...and new dorrs were put into Chalabi's mantion...

You bombed them...destroyed everything...and now you claim to be rebuilding them. What humanitarians...

More than 40,000 police on duty nationwide, including 7,000 in Baghdad, compared with virtually none at the war's end.

Why compare it to the end of the war?? ...

Thats like saying "at the end of the war...there was war...and now we have brought you peace!"...but you started the God damn war!!

A first battalion of a retrained Iraqi army graduated from basic training and on active duty.

A WHOLE battallion?? Oh well...what are you waitnig for than...pull out and leave it to the Iraqi army to protect their country

Twenty-two universities and 43 institutes and colleges open, along with almost all primary and secondary schools

They were going to be open anyway!!...its not like YOU opened them. They were 100% open during Saddam...

Come September (October in Iraq's case)...schools open This is not something which America brings about.

Its like saying...before the war there was winter...and now we have brought you summer

An increase in deliveries of pharmaceuticals from 800 tons in May to 12,000 tons.

Well of course...YOU were blocking their deliveries...YOU had an embargo on them

You are such humanitarians you know....You cut off a man's leg...and than take him to the hospital...and congratulate yourself for being kind to the man. You could...after all...have left him to die...

Clearing of 8,000 miles of irrigation canals.

And...hmm...that was US soldiers clearing those canals...or was it Iraqi farmers clearing the canals which they do on a regular bases???

First there was winter...and now there is summer!!

Hurray Hurray for the USA!!

Establishment of 170 newspapers.

YOU didn't establish 170 newspapers...the Iraqi PEOPLE established 170 newspapers. FIRST newspaper to be published in Iraq after the war was the newspaper of the Iraqi COMMUNIST Party...You didn't do it...they did it themselves.

---------

Well...since obviously your job is finished in Iraq..now get the hell out

[jaakko]

I saw it live on TV. That photo proves nothing. Unless the evil Neo-Conservatives that control the Govenment can edit live tv!

I saw it live too. And I already then noted that it was far from any kind of mass event. Just a few dozens. The live tv transmission wasn't edited, the event itself was all set up, a media spectacle. The event was made look big simply by zooming the cameras enough close so it wouldn't be so apparent that there were hardly any people outside the camera's view.

And as I said before, that yankee-kisser is a pro. There is another photo of this man doing his thingy to another soldier in another city, even the pose is pretty similar. He went to welcome the invaders in two separate cities. Was it that he just had spare time, or could it be that he was paid a little for his tender "services"?

[Nox]

Oh, and by the way the man in that one pic kissing the american soldier was photographed doing the same on another soldier in another, far away city. Possibly a sign of this being arranged... ?

Interesting ... I've never heard that before ... can you give a link or something. Somehow I doubt the accuracy of your allegation.

Nox

[MB.]

What I thought was most interesting as I was watching that statue of Saddam being brought down was the number of news crewmen around, and the actaully small number of Iraqi civilians. Not that I'm suggesting a propaganda element, just that it makes sense:

These photos may be staged, or real, big deal? Have you seen any photos of US causilties? No, and that's because the US, understandibly, filters only relases acceptable picutres, and has since the Second World War.

Thus, why are you suprised to see photos which seem to glorify the yanks... if they were shot by US camera men (or US military personnel)?

[smashthestate]

Oh, and by the way the man in that one pic kissing the american soldier was photographed doing the same on another soldier in another, far away city. Possibly a sign of this being arranged... ?

Interesting ... I've never heard that before ... can you give a link or something. Somehow I doubt the accuracy of your allegation.

Nox

Tovarish and Jaako have a habit of making accusations and allegations, and just expecting everyone to believe them. Give us some damn proof, we aren't idiots!

[Demosthenes]

These photos may be staged, or real, big deal? Have you seen any photos of US causilties? No, and that's because the US, understandibly, filters only relases acceptable picutres, and has since the Second World War.

I agree. All war photos of all countries from all wars are censored or selectively captures for various reasons.

It's important for the troops that the finicky civilian morale be regularly stoked. You can like or dislike this fact but it's still true of any nation's army for any reason. Once morale goes into the toilet an Army's fighting ability declines. That's a simple fact no one can argue with.

[sokath]

I just saw that statue come down way too many times the day it did. I believe my exact words on that day were "Jesus Christ, if I see that statue fall over one more time, I'm gonna flip.... That's it! You're all dead!"

I'm all talked out about Iraq, not gonna lie.

S./

[GandalfTheGrey]

has anyone else heard the stories about most of the pictures of cheering crowds actually being Ahmed Chalabi's team, who were flown into Iraq after the fall of Baghdad?

I find it interesting that people want to remind us of the "victory" in Iraq now, considering the condition Iraq is in now. If I were them, I'd be quiet about it, and hope the whole sorry mess somehow goes away.

Undoubtedly there were people happy to see the Americans and Saddam gone, but how many people still feel like that? Unemployment is officially at 50%, electricity is still essentially down and the crime rate is at an all time high. At least during Saddam's time, people were secure.

[Tovarish Spetsnaz]

ALL of the chearing crowd was Chalaibi's guys. Iraqi eyewitnesses said the US Army brought bus loads of these guys with them whenever they "liberated" a city...to stage celebrations in front of cameras.

Tovarish and Jaako have a habit of making accusations and allegations, and just expecting everyone to believe them. Give us some damn proof, we aren't idiots!

Of course you are not idiots!! No one is making such allegations...and if you allow us to provide you with proof...we will enlighten you even more than you already are!!

Here you go...



There are other photos of the particular guy kissing the US soldier as well...I just can't find them right now (if someone can find a link...)

An even more zoomed out photo of the square. Can you spot the crowd?? (you win $5 if you can!)

[MB.]

Uhmm... TS, this is starting to look like a Moon Landing Hoax kind of thing: So, in defense, I'd say this:

What time was that 'zoomed out' picture taken at reletive to the above shot?

That Iraqi who was a member of Chalaibi's guys, well, of course they're going to be present at such a symbolic event.

And, from watching the footage as it was happening, I can safetly say it hardly looks staged (if by staged you mean the placing of Chalaibi's guys or whatever, then we're saying the same thing- otherwise feel free to correct me), the yanks had to bring in a repair and recovery vehicle to pull the statue down, and it still took hours. If it was staged, why did it take so long?

Anyway, this is sounding a bit conspiracy theorist to me, so: where did you get he pictures?

[smashthestate]

HAHA! Tovarish, your zoomed out picture of the square isn't even the same time (and I doubt the same day) as the above picture of the square (during the pulling-down of the statue).

It's easy to prove. At the top-right of the picture, look how much traffic is piled up behind the blockades. Now compare that traffic (and even the lighting) to the below picture. They are obviously not taken at the same time, so spare me!

Does this mean I still get the $5?

[GandalfTheGrey]

It's easy to prove. At the top-right of the picture, look how much traffic is piled up behind the blockades. Now compare that traffic (and even the lighting) to the below picture. They are obviously not taken at the same time, so spare me!

It doesn't mean its not a picture of the same incident. The traffic could have dissapeared within minutes (to make way for more American tanks). And if you look at the first picture, with the yellow circles indicating the American tanks, you will find the same tanks, in exactly the same position in the other picture.

[Efrem Da King]

So a coupla hundred cars in a build up magically went away in a couple of minutes and the sun came out in full force when it was completly cloudy just before. LOL.

[GandalfTheGrey]

There is absolutely no evidence that it was cloudy in the first picture. The picture is quite blurry, but that is the picture quality.

And yes, cars can dissapear in a matter of minutes. Not that that necessarily has to be the case. Remember the whole ceremony took some hours.

[The American Lion]

Ahh dont we all remember the gun shots druing the fall of the Statue? When Iraqi soldiers attacked the crowed from some buildings the crowed left.