[Alchemy]

The only indigenous 'Africans' from South Africa are the Khoi-San peoples who are very small in number. In fact, Khoi-san (considered "coloured" people) are also discriminated in South Africa by the Bantu majority. Because they were favored over Bantus by the whites, they receive no affirmative action, and are among the poorest and most victimized people in South Africa. The blacks that dominate South Africa now are almost all Bantu-speakers from the equitorial area and actually have less history with South Africa than the whites who have been there longer. The flow of migrants to sparsely populated South Africa was started by whites, but yet they are still viewed as 'invaders', even though they have been there longer than the Bantus who migrated there for day labor on white owned farms and mines.

Lolz @ Kaspar. I wonder who the Nguni aka Zulu's, Xhosa's, Basotho, Pedi's, Swazi's and Venda’s were. You show your ignorance and lose more credibility with each new post you make.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basotho
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xhosa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zulu

Furthermore, the Australopithecus africanus fossil calls bullshit on your post since it is widely accepted that Southern Africa is the cradle of humankind meaning what exactly? That the land was inhabited thousands of years before by the “black” inhabitants before "white" settlers arrived perhaps?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cradle_of_Humankind

You are extremely creative with history arent you....

[Figlio di Moros]

Is the fact Bantus didn't migrate to southern Africa until after the Afrikaaners not historical fact?

[Kaspar]

Is the fact Bantus didn't migrate to southern Africa until after the Afrikaaners not historical fact?

This statement is completely false.

There were Bantu groups in KwaZulu-Natal by 300 A.D. and in Limpopo by 500 A.D. That's over 1000 years before any Europeans landed in South Africa.

And just a quick pointer, the ethnic group is called Afrikaners, with one a. Afrikaans, with two a's, is the language.

[politburo player]

Is the fact Bantus didn't migrate to southern Africa until after the Afrikaaners not historical fact?

They were nomadic (hunter gatherer) in nature, and though fossil evidence can be found of their existence thousands of years ago, they never permanently inhabited Southern Africa to any great extent. Their patterns were purely nomadic, chasing wild game and seasonal rains. They never built permanent villages, institutions or irrigation for farming like the Afrikaners. Unlike the British, who used Cape Town and other coastal cities as transhipment points for merchant mariners relying on international trade, the Afrikaners were committed to building a sustainable, agricultural civilization deep within the heart of Southern Africa. That Kaspar and other excuse makers believe that a sparse population of nomadic tribes who knew no borders all the sudden deserve ownership of the South Africa as a country is hogwash. Their analysis of who deserves credit for South Africa is purely based on skin color, and not by the fact that hundreds of years ago, whites settled parts of Southern Africa in equal or greater numbers than existing native tribes.

[Alchemy]

^^ Have you bothered reading the links provided above? Africans had their own form of economy, agriculture and trade. They coped quite fine for thousands of years before the Dutch arrived. Between all your white pride banter, do you not find it in the least bit ironic that you have African lineage in that gene pool of yours that you believe to be so untainted? Why is it that this glaring reality (your gene pool being "polluted" with black ancestry) almost always appears to elude right wingers?

[Figlio di Moros]

How, exactly, are our gene pools polluted? Unlike politburo, I likely do have black ancesters, and know I have AmerIndian ones, but how, exactly, does that make me "not white"?

Personally, I find it a bit more intruiging that you promote the "one-drop rule" to suit your needs while admixture isn't the biggest concern for us "pro-white" types.

[Kaspar]

Alchemy, just give up the discussion. There's no point in arguing with a person who blatantly ignores factual information.

[politburo player]

Between all your white pride banter, do you not find it in the least bit ironic that you have African lineage in that gene pool of yours that you believe to be so untainted? Why is it that this glaring reality (your gene pool being "polluted" with black ancestry) almost always appears to elude right wingers?

Wow, your argument has melted down to attacking my ethnic heritage. And what's with all this gene pool stuff? I am only pointing out how -and when- certain groups of people contributed to the economic growth of South Africa.

[Alchemy]

How, exactly, are our gene pools polluted? Unlike politburo, I likely do have black ancesters, and know I have AmerIndian ones, but how, exactly, does that make me "not white"?

Personally, I find it a bit more intruiging that you promote the "one-drop rule" to suit your needs while admixture isn't the biggest concern for us "pro-white" types.

You have missed the point. I am referring to the general veiled innuendo that "blacks" are inferior to "whites" as the theme in nealry every thread dedicated to South Africa! There is no such thing as "whites" or "blacks" since there are no clear dividing lines among separate groups in terms of variation! There is only the human race. If you see "blacks" as being inferior, you see a certain degree of yourself as being inferior since all living organisms on Earth are descended from a common ancestor or ancestral gene pool. The same so called inferiority therefore flows through your very veins! Since humans as a species are monotypic, it is rather nonsensical of anybody to base their lives on this kind of ideology since all members of this particular species are very similar and cannot be sensibly divided into biologically significant subcategories.

[Figlio di Moros]

If you see "blacks" as being inferior, you see a certain degree of yourself as being inferior since all living organisms on Earth are descended from a common ancestor or ancestral gene pool.

1) No-one's arguing blacks are inferior; the argument was that post-Apartheid South Africa isn't some post-racial utopia that a lot of people try to make it out to be.

2) "all living animals"... I consider myself superior to a sponge, should I change my POV because we once shared the same ancester?

3) Humans have a wide variety of pigmentation, bone structures, musculature, hormone supply, genetic disorders, etc. that generally group around eachother. Arguing there's no natural hierachy of races is one thing, but to say there's "no difference" is altogether different.

[Philby]

On an other forum (non existent) there is this South African guy, he sais he's a boer, spamming about plaasmoorde. What is it exactly?

[Alchemy]

No-one's arguing blacks are inferior; the argument was that post-Apartheid South Africa isn't some post-racial utopia that a lot of people try to make it out to be.

Yeah. Tell that to this guy. I have provided a few of his gems.

I can see the problem being even more frightening to whites given that the barbarian rape method eminates from subcultures outside of the white community.

she was a 'shoe in' for the internationally-led, self loathing liberals who gave control of her country to a bunch of uneducated, AK-47 toting reactionaries.

So they made spears... what do they have to show for it?

The fact that your poltically correct brain rejects phrases like 'native promiscuity' does not make it any less of a reality. There is no other way AIDS could spread so fast.

Figlio Wrote

2) "all living animals"... I consider myself superior to a sponge, should I change my POV because we once shared the same ancester?

3) Humans have a wide variety of pigmentation, bone structures, musculature, hormone supply, genetic disorders, etc. that generally group around eachother. Arguing there's no natural hierachy of races is one thing, but to say there's "no difference" is altogether different.

You will find that we share much more in common than just links to a sponge.

Tracing one person's lineage back in time forms a binary tree of parents, grandparents, great-grandparents and so on. However, the number of individuals in such an ancestor tree grows exponentially and will eventually become impossibly high. For example, a single individual alive today would, over 30 generations, going back to about the High Middle Ages, have 230 or about 1.07 billion ancestors, more than the total world population at the time. [1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_recen ... n_ancestor

Your point 3 correctly refers to genotypic and phenotypic variation. You will find however that there are no allopatric partitions between groups to identify humans into different subspecies like black and white.

[Alchemy]

On an other forum (non existent) there is this South African guy, he sais he's a boer, spamming about plaasmoorde. What is it exactly?

You dont wanna know dude. Trust me...

[Philby]

^^

This only makes me more curious.

[Kaspar]

Plaasmoorde translates from Afrikaans to English as Farm Murder. Many people claim there is a sort of ethnic genocide going on South Africa against the country's Afrikaner farmers and landowners. There has been a great deal of violent crime targeted against farmers the past few years which I think hasn't been sufficiently addressed by the government. However, it isn't what I would call a genocide, as many people like to think it is.

[politburo player]

Plaasmoorde translates from Afrikaans to English as Farm Murder. Many people claim there is a sort of ethnic genocide going on South Africa against the country's Afrikaner farmers and landowners. There has been a great deal of violent crime targeted against farmers the past few years which I think hasn't been sufficiently addressed by the government. However, it isn't what I would call a genocide, as many people like to think it is.

Given that the population of white farmers is less than 40,000, and since 1994, nearly 3,000 rural Afrikaners have been killed from said "farm violence", I don't know what else you could call it. By simple math, that's 7.5% of the existing population that has been killed over the last 16 years. Also, considering that this violence terrified so many others, the Afrikaner farm population is a mere shadow of what it used to be. Sounds like what any other intimidated, violently oppressed ethnic/cultural group with ample resources has done throughout history: they fled.

Here is a blog for your digestion, Kaspar.

http://afrikaner-genocide-achives.blogspot.com/

...............................................

You have missed the point. I am referring to the general veiled innuendo that "blacks" are inferior to "whites" as the theme in nealry every thread dedicated to South Africa! There is no such thing as "whites" or "blacks" since there are no clear dividing lines among separate groups in terms of variation! There is only the human race. If you see "blacks" as being inferior, you see a certain degree of yourself as being inferior since all living organisms on Earth are descended from a common ancestor or ancestral gene pool. The same so called inferiority therefore flows through your very veins! Since humans as a species are monotypic, it is rather nonsensical of anybody to base their lives on this kind of ideology since all members of this particular species are very similar and cannot be sensibly divided into biologically significant subcategories.

South Africa's problems are not genetic, they are cultural. Yes, I believe that we are all one human race, albiet with slight dispositions. The Afrikaner people's biggest disposition was their industriousness. South African crime rates are what you get when people start to take pride in their hunter gatherer heritage, and instead of government being there to stop the crime, it popularizes and politicizes this not too distant heritage with a nationalistic, Pan-African flavor, further increasing crime against whites and those not from the same tribe. I gaurantee you Zuma could give a rat's ass if white peoples' houses are ransacked or broken into, so long as enough of them remain to run his major industries and the media.

[Kaspar]

Of course, white landowners would be robbed more frequently than black landowners. The amount of wealthy white landowners to wealthy black landowners is considerably skewed.

When I've been mugged in Africa, I know that I was most likely targeted in large part because of my race. This is simply because whites are more likely to be the ones with money in Africa. It isn't like it's some sort of act of revenge being carried out against me. The typical thief in South Africa is only worried about money and how easy it is to get that money.

Obviously, I won't go so far as to deny that there aren't any revenge-motivated attacks against white farmers taking place in South Africa, yet at the same time the general picture of this conflict is simply poor people trying to get money. You seem to think that the underlying motivation for these attacks is racially motivated.

And I don't formulate conclusions that require statistical information from blogs, so you might as well not include the link.

Or from pictures. I can do that too:



A rather pointless method of discussing important matters if you ask me.

[politburo player]

When I've been mugged in Africa, I know that I was most likely targeted in large part because of my race.

You seem to think that the underlying motivation for these attacks is racially motivated.

I am sorry that you were mugged in Africa (most people never get to experience that), but you just admitted that you were largely targeted for being white. Whether or not you looked like you have money, that is a racially motivated crime. Did the assailant use a gun, machete, etc.?

As to your comment about SA blogs, I assume you are aware that they are quite numerous. Many of your fellow countrymen do not share your tolerance, that's for sure. I know your old avatar Helen Zilie is a target within the ANC, the ANC Youth League, and most elements of corruption within SA. She is a known whistleblower in your country, so I know you are not the extremist-apologist I once thought you to be. I do, however, continue to believe that an unchecked ANC will continue to grind down the patience of nice folks like yourself, and as long as enough of you remain to run the major industries and the media, the ANC or and ANC-style regime will always control South Africa.

By the way, what time is it in SA right now???

This blog is by Dr. Philip Du Toit... A South African.

http://greatsalandscandal.blogspot.com/

I know you are lingering out there somewhere...