[Potemkin]

Stuff like healthcare services.

You should tell this to @late.

Indeed. There’s a reason why most of the infrastructure in the USA is shabby and crumbling, and why the state of California is essentially bankrupt and can’t even afford to keep the lights on. We don’t (yet) have that problem in the UK because of our class system - most people here resent the rich, and are therefore happy to vote to tax them. And there are very few rich people and lots of poor people. Pretty much like Latin America, but with more rain and lots of tea.

Anyway, the best systems in Europe, like those of Germany, the Netherlands or Switzerland, are not socialized - the best ones are heavily regulated by the government and subsidized, but still feature a large role for the private sector. This has the advantage of not creating monopolies, which in turn lead to inefficiencies, but can still take advantage of pooling.

As was pointed out in this thread, the NHS does not have a monopoly on health care in the UK. We have a two tier system; private medicine for the rich, and socialised medicine for everyone else.

[wat0n]

Indeed. There’s a reason why most of the infrastructure in the USA is shabby and crumbling, and why the state of California is essentially bankrupt and can’t even afford to keep the lights on. We don’t (yet) have that problem in the UK because of our class system - most people here resent the rich, and are therefore happy to vote to tax them. And there are very few rich people and lots of poor people. Pretty much like Latin America, but with more rain and lots of tea.

Not as unequal as Latin America, and richer though.

As was pointed out in this thread, the NHS does not have a monopoly on health care in the UK. We have a two tier system; private medicine for the rich, and socialised medicine for everyone else.

Private medicine isn't banned anywhere in the West though. Even if it was, the rich would just do healthcare tourism in the US or some other country.

[Unthinking Majority]

Stuff like healthcare services.

You should tell this to @late.

Anyway, the best systems in Europe, like those of Germany, the Netherlands or Switzerland, are not socialized - the best ones are heavily regulated by the government and subsidized, but still feature a large role for the private sector. This has the advantage of not creating monopolies, which in turn lead to inefficiencies, but can still take advantage of pooling.

I agree that a requirement for a good private system would be strong regulations. I just quickly looked up Switzerland's system and it is universal but private, and citizens are required to buy health insurance. As long as the insurance companies and providers are well-regulated and legally required to behave ethically that seems like it could work. Make it law where every citizen regardless of income has to receive the same level of service and that would also work.

A problem with single-payer universal care funded by government is that it is a monopoly in terms of the funding. And there's no profit motive, which can be good, but the problem is that it can lack motive altogether. The only motive for politicians to fund and manage a publicly funded system properly is to get re-elected. But when all the major parties are more or less equally ineffective then there remains no motive at all to provide quality care because there's no reason for anyone to change anything.

[late]

All of which can also be addressed by making getting insured compulsory.

Incorrect.

[late]

[quote="Unthinking Majority"


I just quickly looked up Switzerland's system


[/quote]

What works for the Swiss will often not work here. Ever been there? They are serious, get a speeding ticket there and you can go to jail. Fail to keep your house up to code and they will show you the way out.

[late]

Fuck'em

The idea is fight monsters, not become one..

[late]

Indeed.

This stuff isn't simple. For a bunch of reasons we can't go single payer, or Bismarck.

Income inequality and corruption are linked at the genitals.. But, if we ever do another upgrade, we need to fold the various govt programs together ( VA, Obamacare, Medicare, etc) and support for poor areas that will make it possible for them to have clinics or hospitals.

When a big company ( like big oil ) is afraid, they can throw a bunch of money at politicians, and get their way. That's corruption. One of the many things Americans don't want to face is their 500 pound gorilla of corruption. Just look at Trump..

[Potemkin]

This stuff isn't simple. For a bunch of reasons we can't go single payer, or Bismarck.

Income inequality and corruption are linked at the genitals.. But, if we ever do another upgrade, we need to fold the various govt programs together ( VA, Obamacare, Medicare, etc) and support for poor areas that will make it possible for them to have clinics or hospitals.

When a big company ( like big oil ) is afraid, they can throw a bunch of money at politicians, and get their way. That's corruption. One of the many things Americans don't want to face is their 500 pound gorilla of corruption. Just look at Trump..

The American solution to the problem of corruption seems to be to simply declare it legal. Guys, that’s the wrong idea….

[late]

The American solution to the problem of corruption seems to be to simply declare it legal. Guys, that’s the wrong idea….

With blatantly corrupt SC judges, we are screwed for a long time. Maybe longer..

[Potemkin]

With blatantly corrupt SC judges, we are screwed for a long time. Maybe longer..

It’s nothing which couldn’t be solved by a proletarian revolution. Just sayin’.

[Rancid]

The idea is fight monsters, not become one..

THe people that live in these rural places are the same people that vote against a single payer system that would benefit them most of all. If they are too dense to understand this... then fuck'em.

You can lead a horse to water....

[wat0n]

Incorrect.

Not really.

You also seem to somehow believe there aren't important constituencies who aren't willing to be taxed or pay insurance for getting healthcare. And then they're the same to complain when they don't or when it's expensive.

[late]

THe people that live in these rural places are the same people that vote against a single payer system that would benefit them most of all. If they are too dense to understand this... then fuck'em.

You can lead a horse to water....

A major study was just published that found a strong correlation between structural racism and negative health outcomes. It would be easier to help those people, than the rural types. But they all need help. I understand where you are coming from, but the first step in building trust is helping.

[late]

Not really.

The same aholes fought Obamacare, and lost, repeatedly.

It's a fight, and you don't win when you're hiding under the bed.

[wat0n]

The same aholes fought Obamacare, and lost, repeatedly.

It's a fight, and you don't win when you're hiding under the bed.

And that's exactly the problem.

The Germans, Swiss and Dutch don't fight about whether insurance should be compulsory. There's a broad consensus on this matter, that simply doesn't exist in the US.

[late]

And that's exactly the problem.

The problem is corruption.

Btw, repeating stupid doesn't improve it.

[wat0n]

The problem is corruption.

Btw, repeating stupid doesn't improve it.

Not voting like you isn't corruption

[late]

Not voting like you isn't corruption

Not knowing what you're talking about makes you a victim of it.

[wat0n]

Not knowing what you're talking about makes you a victim of it.

Why are progressive Dems such cry babies?

[late]

Why are progressive Dems such cry babies?

That's one way of admitting you lost.