[skinster]

Challenge accepted. Both Biden and Blair are brutal dictators who have caused and are causing untold damage to their own societies and to the world. Oh, and Biden is a racist fuck, and Blair is a war criminal and mass-murderer. Happy now?

Well, that's a good start.

It’s your admiration for Putin which I find puzzling.

Admiration? That's quite a stretch. I've made clear I support the KPRF in Russia and that with them, think the decision by the Russian government's intervention in the war in Ukraine was 8 years too late.

Putin is not Fidel Castro.

Nobody said this so I'm not sure why you keep repeating it.

And his ‘anti-imperialist’ credentials are sketchy at best. He’s anti-Western (for very good reasons, because the West is anti-Russian),

No, they're not sketchy at best. He is straight up fighting imperialism today in Ukraine and did so from 2015 onwards in Syria (again, a few years too late as far as I'm concerned).

The only reason why I mention Putin is because the liberal dorks do that dumb liberal thing of mentioning him in the same way they mentioned Saddam Hussein in Iraq or Maduro as if it is one person running the show, when it obviously is not.

[Szabo]

Every prominent western leftist I know the likes of Yanis Varoufakis, Richard Wolff, Abby Martin, or Noam Chomsky either despise Putin or have condemned Russia's invasion. I guess that's why she tries to separate herself from leftists even though communism is a left wing ideology.

Her rhetoric is really more in line with fringe conspiracy theorists who blame everything on the west and absolve Russia or anyone who is remotely anti-western of any wrongdoing.

A balanced person should be able to call out sin and crime regardless of origin. If you think the Iraq invasion was a crime, they you should equally or even more so call Russia's invasion a crime. I'll remind y'all that unlike Iraq which had invaded two countries, Ukraine has never invaded anyone.

[skinster]

Every prominent western leftist I know the likes of Yanis Varoufakis, Richard Wolff, Abby Martin, or Noam Chomsky either despise Putin or have condemned Russia's invasion.

Radlibs and "anarcho-syndacalists" are not communists, in fact, Chomsky is explicitly anti-communist.

[Szabo]

:lol:

Radlibs and "anarcho-syndacalists" are not communists, in fact, Chomsky is explicitly anti-communist.

I said leftist, not communist, you seem incapable of distinguishing words in English.

By the by, out of curiosity, are there any communists you adhere to or admire?

[skinster]

Yes, thanks. But this thread isn't about me, crybaby.

[Szabo]

Yes, thanks. But this thread isn't about me, crybaby.

Just trying to make polite conversation and understand where you're coming from, because I know both Marx and Lenin said nasty things about Russia and sweet things about Ukraine, so I'm wondering which communists you're left with dead or alive since you seem to think everyone's a moron. Besides, I'm not trying to ad-hominem you. I said a whole bunch of stuff equating Putin and Russia to fascism, but you had no comment on that.

I guess you just don't like me.

[skinster]

Yawn.

Back on topic:

[Szabo]

After Wagner fled Ukraine like the cowards that they are and with their criminal war lords dead, killed by their very own in true Russian fashion, it's going to be very interesting to see where things go from here in the Niger with ECOWAS and Nigeria at the helm gearing up for war.

I personally wouldn't support an invasion, because I value human life and believe that countries should be given the opportunity to deal with their own problems.

But man, if they do invade and if western powers get involved with their air-force, then every liberal is gonna have every right to scream "BUT WHAT ABOUT RUSSIA'S INVASION OF UKRAINE?! from the rafters.

It would be extremely sad, but slightly funny.

[skinster]

Yeah, it doesn't look like it's happening.

[skinster]

[skinster]

In Niger the authorities told French staff they had to leave the embassy by yesterday and when they refused they cut off electricity and water to the embassies. They also did the same with the French military bases and prevented food from getting in.

Today.

[Szabo]

Another day, another coup d’état in Africa, in Gabon.

Only this time I can’t figure out who’s supporting whom and why.

[skinster]

^ It is a military coup on the side of the people.



Exciting times on the African continent!

[Deutschmania]

If you want Russia to over-achieve, to expand its borders, to subdue its enemies or to modernise itself, then the iron fist has to be used and faces have to be smashed with it. As the poet Maximilian Voloshin put it, “Peter the Great was the first Bolshevik”. And then Catherine the Great, and then many other ‘great’ Tsars, and then the real Bolsheviks took over, and Russia went into overdrive. But then the Russian leadership started going soft after Stalin’s death. They seemed to forget everything they had ever learned about the nature of Russian society and Russian history. Gorbachev, in particular, was dangerously naive - he actually seemed to think that Russia could become a bigger version of Switzerland if only the Russian leadership could be nice enough. I think we all know how that ended….

No, the problem with Putin is not that he’s a brutal dictator. So was Ivan the Terrible, so was Peter the Great, so was Catherine the Great, so was Stalin, yet they all achieved great things for Russia. No, the problem with Putin is that he seems to be an incompetent brutal dictator. And history is usually unkind to leaders like that….

This sentiment seems to me to be along similar lines to that of Russian National Bolshevism. That the Communists should be supported in the interests of national greatness and state power , if nothing else. Also it brings to mind the opinion of John Stuart Mill , that certain less advanced societies are unfit for liberty , and so a benevolent dictatorship would be preferable. From his treatise " On Liberty" , " It is, perhaps, hardly necessary to say that this doctrine is meant to apply only to human beings in the maturity of their faculties. We are not speaking of children, or of young persons below the age which the law may fix as that of manhood or womanhood. Those who are still in a state to require being taken care of by others, must be protected against their own actions as well as against external injury. For the same reason, we may leave out of consideration those backward states of society in which the race itself may be considered as in its nonage. The early difficulties in the way of spontaneous progress are so great, that there is seldom any choice of means for overcoming them; and a ruler full of the spirit of improvement is warranted in the use of any expedients that will attain an end, perhaps otherwise unattainable. Despotism is a legitimate mode of government in dealing with barbarians, provided the end be their improvement, and the means justified by actually effecting that end. Liberty, as a principle, has no application to any state of things anterior to the time when mankind have become capable of being improved by free and equal discussion. Until then, there is nothing for them but implicit obedience to an Akbar or a Charlemagne, if they are so fortunate as to find one. But as soon as mankind have attained the capacity of being guided to their own improvement by conviction or persuasion (a period long since reached in all nations with whom we need here concern ourselves), compulsion, either in the direct form or in that of pains and penalties for non-compliance, is no longer admissible as a means to their own good, and justifiable only for the security of others." https://socialsci.libretexts.org/Courses/Western_Washington_University/Introduction_to_Political_Theory_I/01%3A_Readings/1.11%3A_John_Stuart_Mill__Excerpts_from_On_Liberty_1859 Is it then your opinion that the people of Russia are not well suited for the ordered liberty of a democratic civil society ? And can't a nation be at once great and free? Why or why not ?

[Potemkin]

This sentiment seems to me to be along similar lines to that of Russian National Bolshevism. That the Communists should be supported in the interests of national greatness and state power , if nothing else. Also it brings to mind the opinion of John Stuart Mill , that certain less advanced societies are unfit for liberty , and so a benevolent dictatorship would be preferable. From his treatise " On Liberty" , " It is, perhaps, hardly necessary to say that this doctrine is meant to apply only to human beings in the maturity of their faculties. We are not speaking of children, or of young persons below the age which the law may fix as that of manhood or womanhood. Those who are still in a state to require being taken care of by others, must be protected against their own actions as well as against external injury. For the same reason, we may leave out of consideration those backward states of society in which the race itself may be considered as in its nonage. The early difficulties in the way of spontaneous progress are so great, that there is seldom any choice of means for overcoming them; and a ruler full of the spirit of improvement is warranted in the use of any expedients that will attain an end, perhaps otherwise unattainable. Despotism is a legitimate mode of government in dealing with barbarians, provided the end be their improvement, and the means justified by actually effecting that end. Liberty, as a principle, has no application to any state of things anterior to the time when mankind have become capable of being improved by free and equal discussion. Until then, there is nothing for them but implicit obedience to an Akbar or a Charlemagne, if they are so fortunate as to find one. But as soon as mankind have attained the capacity of being guided to their own improvement by conviction or persuasion (a period long since reached in all nations with whom we need here concern ourselves), compulsion, either in the direct form or in that of pains and penalties for non-compliance, is no longer admissible as a means to their own good, and justifiable only for the security of others." https://socialsci.libretexts.org/Courses/Western_Washington_University/Introduction_to_Political_Theory_I/01%3A_Readings/1.11%3A_John_Stuart_Mill__Excerpts_from_On_Liberty_1859 Is it then your opinion that the people of Russia are not well suited for the ordered liberty of a democratic civil society ? And can't a nation be at once great and free? Why or why not ?

I dunno about Russia not being ready for democracy, but @skinster certainly seems to think that sub-Saharan Africa isn’t ready for it yet. The irony of accusing me of ‘racism’ seems to be lost on her.

[annatar1914]

I dunno about Russia not being ready for democracy, but @skinster certainly seems to think that sub-Saharan Africa isn’t ready for it yet. The irony of accusing me of ‘racism’ seems to be lost on her.

@Potemkin :

Ah my friend, but what is " democracy" anyway? It certainly cannot be " two wolves and a lamb voting to decide what's for dinner", lol

[skinster]

I dunno about Russia not being ready for democracy, but @skinster certainly seems to think that sub-Saharan Africa isn’t ready for it yet. The irony of accusing me of ‘racism’ seems to be lost on her.

Where did I say Africans aren't ready for it?

And yes, your casual racism is your problem. Glad it's stuck with you. Maybe you can start on your road to unlearn it.

[Skynet]

What mean elections when they are not fair, nothing. Africa should introduce Stalinism a la North-Korea to build a heavy industry. For example North-Korea does not print school books they give each child a tablet computer because it is cheaper then printing books... Unfortunatelly Stalinism does absolutely not work in farming sector, Leninism is better.

@Potemkin any culture does democracy work, Yugoslavia worked as long as the Titoist Commies ruled, now we Balkanites have democracy which is in fact a cleptocracy, 90% say dictature worked better.

[Potemkin]

What mean elections when they are not fair, nothing. Africa should introduce Stalinism a la North-Korea to build a heavy industry. For example North-Korea does not print school books they give each child a tablet computer because it is cheaper then printing books... Unfortunatelly Stalinism does absolutely not work in farming sector, Leninism is better.

@Potemkin any culture does democracy work, Yugoslavia worked as long as the Titoist Commies ruled, now we Balkanites have democracy which is in fact a cleptocracy, 90% say dictature worked better.

"In capitalist society, under the conditions most favorable to its development, we have more or less complete democracy in the democratic republic. But this democracy is always bound by the narrow framework of capitalist exploitation and consequently always remains, in reality, a democracy for the minority, only for the possessing classes, only for the rich. Freedom in capitalist society always remains just about the same as it was in the ancient Greek republics: freedom for the slave-owners. The modern wage slaves, owing to the conditions of capitalist exploitation, are so much crushed by want and poverty that "democracy is nothing to them," "politics is nothing to them"; that, in the ordinary peaceful course of events, the majority of the population is debarred from participating in social and political life." - V.I. Lenin, State and Revolution

[skinster]