wat0n wrote:I also provided you with an example of evident ethnic cleansing of the Jews in Yemen you are ignoring. I wonder why.
I wasn't ignoring it, I accepted that Jews have been victimized in the past, this is true of many races and cultures, look at American Indians or Australian Aborigines for example, plenty of ethnic cleansing there. Furthermore while were on the topic, Jews were not the only victims of mass extermination campaigns during WW2 and there was
more than a single Holocaust see
thistoo.
wat0n wrote:These Jews are disliked but not persecuted. And they are disliked because of their fundamentalism and general disregard for the law.
Well I think they'd argue with you here. First they do not acknowledge the state authority to which they are subjected. Many such Jews lived peacefully in Palestine living with Arabs and had done so for centuries. They did not want a state to be imposed upon them, a government orchestrated by the West to be imposed upon them. They were not afforded a vote, a democratic process, instead the state was created against the will of the majority, by the UN under the direct manipulation of the former colonial powers.
wat0n wrote:Rioting isn't civil disobedience. Neither is harassment.
So the Jews who rioted during the Warsaw uprising were breaking the law?
wat0n wrote:And, actually, civil disobedience includes accepting the consequences.
Why?
wat0n wrote:You do realize that either Jews had bought most of the land they lived in or it was owned by the government by 1947, do you?
Why ethnically cleanse the Jews from places like Hebron as early as 1929? This happened long before the founding of Israel and also before the rise of Zionist terrorism by the likes of Irgun and Lehi.
The "government" did not own anything if that government is itself illegitimate. As I explained the majority had no say in the matter, no vote about who or what form of government, many wanted no government, did not want change imposed upon them by a coalition of former terrorist organizations who advocated Jew supremacy. So no, the "government" did not own anything not in any legal sense and more than Germany "owned" Paris during their occupation of it.
The Israelis
do not own Gaza, they
do not own the West Bank, they
illegally occupy it according to international law (being an advocate of law and order I am fascinated to see how you defend this).
The events in Hebron were precipitated by fear, fear that began when the British made the Balfour Declaration perceived as a grave threat to many in Palestine (and look, their fears were well founded).
All of these hostilities do not arise form Muslims hating Jews, they are the result of the divide and conquer policy of the colonial powers.
The West facilitated mass immigration of Jews into Palestine, this was planned years before between the British and the Zionists. That led to a rapid change in demographics, none of which was natural but as a result of external politics.
Just like South Africa, Israel was created as a majority ruled by a minority, prior to Israel's creation the population were not invited to vote for a government, it was imposed, undemocratically imposed. The region was partitioned and if you happened to be non-Jewish living in a Jewish partition, tough, you'd better get used to being inferior.
wat0n wrote:Are you saying Herzl wasn't right about this, just by looking at what happened in the Holocaust?
What would have surprised him, and most Europeans of his generation, is that the Holocaust was perpetrated by Germany. Most would have bet on Russia. But the event itself? Not at all.
Herzl says nothing about Jew supremacist ideology. The persecution of Jews in history is not contested, certainly not by me. I agree with Herzl, many did but nothing Herzl said corresponds to Israeli ideology today.
wat0n wrote:You've seen little evidence for it even when the students themselves are saying so?
You mean "claiming so" I think. There is a powerful Zionist lobby, to overlook that is to err.
wat0n wrote:I think it's wrong to protest to destroy Israel, which is what many protestors have said they want.
I disagree, since "Israel" today represents racist, apartheid Zionism, it is no more wrong to call for the destruction of that
ideology than it was wrong to call for the
destruction of the Third Reich. Calling for the destruction of the Third Reich, wiping
it from the face of earth, is not understood by any sensible person to mean the destruction of Germany or its population, the meaning is pretty obvious. Of course the Zionist lobby loves to portray any criticism of the racist ideology as "calling for the destruction of Israel" that is a lie, no student protester has said any such thing, what they do say and what I say, is that the ideology, the nature of the state today, must be destroyed in EXACTLY the same way that Nazi ideology and the cult of the Third Reich needed to be destroyed.
wat0n wrote:But as long as they're not harassing anyone, disrupting the school operations and affecting the rights of others more generally I think it's their right. Free speech and all that.
Starting on October the 7th the Zionist lobby began harassing anti-Zionists, before any actual campus protest had begun. Anyone not doing their bidding became a target, they were calling for the dismissal of University heads just because they would not do the Zionist bidding, unless the said "We condemn the unprovoked attacks by Hamas" and so on. This began immediately, harassment and persecution. One must do as the Zionists say or they will be labelled antisemitic and once that label is thrown at you all serious discussion is over, and that's the intention.
wat0n wrote:Mere racism, including anti-semitism, is not illegal. Even calling for genocide isn't illegal and still falls into free speech. Harassment, impeding freedom of movement and damaging property on the other hand are.
As is
seeking the dismissal of people who object to Israel's racist ideology, this too is wrong yet began on October 7th. Anyone who argued that babies were not beheaded, was persecuted, anyone who said that the IDF killed Jews along with Hamas when they attempted a rescue was persecuted.
And racism is illegal, if you try to prevent blacks from coming into a store or deny blacks the same service you provide whites, that's against the law - it's odd why you don't know this.