[Corporatios]

Persia had a more developed society than the regions it conquered, therefore like Rome it can be seen as the bringer of civilisation to uncouth tribes. It was a beacon surrounded by barbarian tribes.

The Greek colonies of Asia Minor might even have been more advanced at the time than mainland Greece. They were more civilized than Persia. There were constant revolts after all, which lead to the Persian Wars.

[Doomhammer]

The Greek colonies of Asia Minor might even have been more advanced at the time than mainland Greece.

How/why were they more advanced? I know a lot of the important philosophers lived in Anatolia but that hardly qualifies them as more advanced.

They were more civilized than Persia.

What is your basis for this statement? The Persians had a large, multinational, empire with a powerful bureaucracy. Were the Greeks more civilized simply because they prevailed over the Persians in battle?

[Corporatios]

How/why were they more advanced? I know a lot of the important philosophers lived in Anatolia but that hardly qualifies them as more advanced.

Maybe not more advanced, but Ionians and Eolians were very prosperous in the early ages, that's why Athenians risked annihilation by supporting the revolt.

What is your basis for this statement? The Persians had a large, multinational, empire with a powerful bureaucracy. Were the Greeks more civilized simply because they prevailed over the Persians in battle?

Haven't you heard about FREEDOM?

Persians had good central government and a wealthy capital. That's all. Greeks(and Romans later) were a thousand years ahead in regards of civilization.

[Doomhammer]

Maybe not more advanced, but Ionians and Eolians were very prosperous in the early ages, that's why Athenians risked annihilation by supporting the revolt.

Weren't Athenian themselves Ionian? Also, Doric Greeks were more badass. You sound like a liberal with an Athens fetish.

lol

Haven't you heard about FREEDOM?

This is SPARTAAA!

That's all. Greeks(and Romans later) were a thousand years ahead in regards of civilization.

And what is civilization? How do you conceptualize it? How do you operationalize it (assuming that some had more or less than others... it must surely be quantifiable)?

[Akuma]

I think many here forget that persia was the first great western / caucasian empire. Persia has its big share in western culture and is part of your culture. After all persians are caucasian and their culture influenced yours far more than rome and greece. Zoroastrism for example changed jewish religion drastical and lead to christianity in many ways. Human rights and equality between man and women comes from persia. Your entire administration is based on persian principles.

The greeks never had real democracy. They were a slave holder society which treated women like dirt. Women virtually never left the house. The persian empire was lightyears ahead from them. It has a reason why Herodotes calles the persian king cyrus the image of a perfect sovereign. You could get evry position in the persian empire no matter what race, religion or gender you had.

And i would like to tell something who blame this and that culture as inferior. There is beauty in evry culture. None is inferior to another. It is bad to say something like that about another culture.

[layman]

And i would like to tell something who blame this and that culture as inferior. There is beauty in evry culture. None is inferior to another. It is bad to say something like that about another culture.

What a load of liberal crap. Some cultures are clearly inferior to others.

[Akuma]

What a load of liberal crap. Some cultures are clearly inferior to others.

No, they developed under different circumstances. And i´m far from liberal. I´m more conservative than you could ever be.

I usually thought same way as you. There were times where i saw your culture as lowest form of human society possible. One step above animals. I was wrong. It is wrong to think like that and i´m glad i was able to understand that.

[layman]

No, they developed under different circumstances.

And? It doesnt matter why they are shit. There are still shit and backward cultures out there, whatever the reason.

And i´m far from liberal.

I know which is why I expect better from you.

[Corporatios]

Weren't Athenian themselves Ionian? Also, Doric Greeks were more badass. You sound like a liberal with an Athens fetish.

Eventually the name was associated with the colonial area and the colonists rather than the tribe. Ionia was the most prosperous and the trigger for the Persian Wars, that's why I mentioned it. I am a Spartan guy(not from Sparta) and I certainly ain't no dirty liberal.

And what is civilization? How do you conceptualize it? How do you operationalize it (assuming that some had more or less than others... it must surely be quantifiable)?

Igor brought it up. He first.

[Thompson_NCL]

No, they developed under different circumstances. And i´m far from liberal. I´m more conservative than you could ever be.

I usually thought same way as you. There were times where i saw your culture as lowest form of human society possible. One step above animals. I was wrong. It is wrong to think like that and i´m glad i was able to understand that.

I'd have thought 1945 was a bit of a clue to our being at the very least, Japan's equal.

[Akuma]

No, if 1945 teached us anything than our superiority. We set the world on fire. We burned away the old world. A world dominated from the west. The british empire vanished into ash infront of the rising sun. So did the french colonial empire.

We are not flawless. We made mistakes and sometimes huge mistakes. But we also did much good. I hold much pride in the fact that Japan was the major force in the destruction of the british empire. We ended one of humanities darkest chapters. Its simply a fact that no other empire was ever so cruel, barbaric as the british empire. Slavery of unimaginable amounts. Genocide unmatched in history. Inventor of the concentration camp...We gave almost all of asia and africa freedom. It was Japan and Germany who brought the tyrant down. We changed the world. And thats something to be proud for. USA did not have the guts to do that.

Also 1945 was a face saving outcome for us in our mentality. We did not lose in battle. We gave up infront a barbaric enemy for the greater good. We were able to push all our demands in the peace treaty. We made the best from our situation and achieved to rise on top of the world again within a very short time. And it showed what we are able to achieve.

When you see how much shaken your country is from such small incidents like 911 i really wonder what your people would do in a real crisis. We saw at hurricane Katrina in New Orleans what happenes in your society when desaster strucks. Looting, mass rapings and a complete downfall of civilisation. USA would not have survived as a nation what we were able to survive.

And i must say that goes not just for Japan. Evry european nation is stronger as USA as well, since each of them knows real war in a way you never may understand.

[Potemkin]

And i must say that goes not just for Japan. Evry european nation is stronger as USA as well, since each of them knows real war in a way you never may understand.

To be fair to the Americans, they did experience that sort of war - the Civil War. Unfortunately, they seem to have forgotten just how bad it was.

[Akuma]

The civil war was a minor war and not compareable to a wars that happened in asia or europe.

Just read into the 30 years war on europe. Some areas in germany were completly free of any human life. Population dropped down to 30 - 50%.

I think many americans see war as cool. They don´t understand the consequences of it. They give it fancy names like operation enduring freedom. Call it "conflicts". Just look how much the biggest terrorist organisation of the world US Army is glorified and you see what i mean.

We have a saying in Japan : "It needs a person who doesn´t know war, to start a war."

It is a fact that USA would not survive something that they so easily push on others.

I also believe thats the main reason why USA is hated so much in the world. It does not represent anything. No morals and no culture. It comes and rapes, then takes the rescources and freedom of the people and leaves a wasteland. And i fear that americans will suffer very much because of that in future.

[Thompson_NCL]

We set the world on fire. We burned away the old world.

The Japanese never fought outside Asia and the Pacific. Most of the world never saw a Japanese soldier or ship anywhere near them.

The british empire vanished into ash infront of the rising sun.

For a short time, whilst it prioritised the European war, yes. Some time later, the rising sun was sinking back into the east.

We are not flawless. We made mistakes and sometimes huge mistakes. But we also did much good. I hold much pride in the fact that Japan was the major force in the destruction of the british empire. We ended one of humanities darkest chapters.

Japan didn't have much impact on the British Empire. Indian independence was on the table before WWII broke out. What do you think Japan specifically achieved?

Its simply a fact that no other empire was ever so cruel, barbaric as the british empire. Slavery of unimaginable amounts. Genocide unmatched in history. Inventor of the concentration camp...We gave almost all of asia and africa freedom. It was Japan and Germany who brought the tyrant down. We changed the world. And thats something to be proud for. USA did not have the guts to do that.

We were the ones who brought slavery to end, so I struggle with the first claim. Which genocides do you speak of? Concentration camps on their own are not a big deal.

How did Japan end the British Empire?

Also 1945 was a face saving outcome for us in our mentality. We did not lose in battle. We gave up infront a barbaric enemy for the greater good. We were able to push all our demands in the peace treaty. We made the best from our situation and achieved to rise on top of the world again within a very short time. And it showed what we are able to achieve.

A crushing defeat?

When you see how much shaken your country is from such small incidents like 911 i really wonder what your people would do in a real crisis. We saw at hurricane Katrina in New Orleans what happenes in your society when desaster strucks. Looting, mass rapings and a complete downfall of civilisation. USA would not have survived as a nation what we were able to survive.

I am not American.

And i must say that goes not just for Japan. Evry european nation is stronger as USA as well, since each of them knows real war in a way you never may understand.

I am not American.

[Akuma]

Today the UK is a small regional power with less potencial than france. It was put in its rightful place.

What genocides i talk about? The native americans for example. Death numbers are up to 12 - 14 millions. It happened in the british colonies. The slave trade was started from british. Another famous genocide was on the aboriginals in australia and one of the only "sucessfull" genocides on the Tasmanians. An entire culture destroyed. The only record we have left are some folk songs which the last tasmanian recorded before she died.

Japan achieved that the asian people saw the british as what they were: defeatable. After that the british empire had no future and crumbled to ash.

[Thompson_NCL]

Today the UK is a small regional power with less potencial than france. It was put in its rightful place.

A small regional power with one of the worlds largest economies, a seat on the un security council, nuclear weapons, one of the worlds highest military expenditures, massive cultural exports etc?

And put in it's place by whom exactly? We were on the winning side of WWII. How did Japan come out of that...? Ah yes, reduced to a client state of the US.

What genocides i talk about? The native americans for example. Death numbers are up to 12 - 14 millions. It happened in the british colonies.

The native Americans were genocided by the British?

The slave trade was started from british.

The slave trade was not started in Britain or by the British. Slavery pre-dates British imperialism by several thousand years. But even if you meant the transatlantic slave trade, you'd be wrong to cite the British because the Spanish were at it 100 years before us.

Another famous genocide was on the aboriginals in australia and one of the only "sucessfull" genocides on the Tasmanians. An entire culture destroyed. The only record we have left are some folk songs which the last tasmanian recorded before she died.

I'll grant you Tasmania in a sense. We were responsible for them and should have protected them, it's sad that we did not. But there was no policy of genocide, it was more a case of a low population and poor local law and order. Many of those who died were killed by disease and criminals. But this is the only example of even vague genocide I can think of.

Japan achieved that the asian people saw the british as what they were: defeatable. After that the british empire had no future and crumbled to ash.

I cannot fathom how you come to this conclusion when the Empire continued in parts of Asia for more than a decade after Japan was defeated and that many of the independence movements predated WWII. Can you please explain your logic?

Your only major success against Britain was at Singapore, which although an amazing victory for Japan, was a tertiary concern for us. We were preoccupied with Germany and Italy. What you're doing is comparable to a Chinese person claiming they beat you in WWII.... Oh sure, they did on paper. But you and I both know you were too busy fighting the US, UK et al to are about China.

Japan was an afterthought. A tertiary concern. You were to us, what the Koreans and Chinese were to you: someone to deal with when the real enemy is defeated. Only... you didn't defeat the real enemy

[Akuma]

The amount of ignorance amazes me. What said the russian foreign minister last week? "The UK is a small country nobody listens too..." He was right. UK has no say in the EU or the world. Your country has no economy left. It produces nothing. How much smaller is your economy compared to Japan?

Let me check..

Japan:
5.96 trillion USD (2012)

UK
2.435 trillion USD

That means our economy is almost 3 times greater than yours. How do you explain that the UK did not gain anything from winning WW II? Does it bother you that from the 1960th UK living standards were lower than germany or Japan?

If winning a war leads to your current state i prefer losing.

I grant you the seat in the security council. Mr Ota, the owner of our local fruit and vegetable shop has more power than this institution.

I heared even Scotland wants leave the UK now.

And you call us a client state of the USA? At least we have the guts to oppose the USA.

UK isn´t called US poodle for no reason. You are the archetype of a vasall state.



And what do you have today? An incompetent PM and a monarchy full of clowns. A big circus under the leadership of a demented queen. Your country loses influence faster than Prince William loses his hair. I guess harry can be lucky that his mom was eaten out from a riding trainer. He looks relative normal compared to the rest of the bunch.

On a sidenote, i found it emberassing that your Queen belittled herself at the Olympics with that show she performed. I´m sure our emperor will not let a double jump out off a helicopter for the laughs...in our olympics in 2020.

It was pretty shameful and pathetic.

[Doomhammer]

Igor brought it up. He first.

The difference is, he didn't say a particular culture was more civilized than another. Igor, can define civilization for us but you would have to explain "culture" and "level of civilization" and why one is more civilized than another. Don't get me wrong, both were ultimately ancient socieities with backwardass ways but since the topic of the thread is Western parochialism...

[Thompson_NCL]

The amount of ignorance amazes me. What said the russian foreign minister last week? "The UK is a small country nobody listens too..." He was right. UK has no say in the EU or the world.

We have far more say and influence than Japan simply by having a security council vote. I don't feel obliged to list all the other arms of our influence because that veto alone makes us far more influential than Japan, which has very little influence itself.

Your country has no economy left.

It produces nothing. How much smaller is your economy compared to Japan?

Let me check..

Japan:
5.96 trillion USD (2012)

UK
2.435 trillion USD

That means our economy is almost 3 times greater than yours.

And yet we achieve a GDP per capita higher than your own I certainly think we could be doing better economically, but I'd not aspire to Japanese levels if it meant we had to double our population.

How do you explain that the UK did not gain anything from winning WW II? Does it bother you that from the 1960th UK living standards were lower than germany or Japan?

If winning a war leads to your current state i prefer losing.

It depends what you consider our war aims to have been. We defeated German imperialism in two world wars, ensuring that a hostile power did not have dominion over Europe and the ability to threaten us. That alone was worth all the tea in China. We certainly paid a high price and you're right to say we suffered thereafter, but to be independent and safe is worth far more than a high gdp.

I grant you the seat in the security council. Mr Ota, the owner of our local fruit and vegetable shop has more power than this institution.

The security council resolutions have made and broke nations, it has influence.

I heared even Scotland wants leave the UK now.

It won't leave the Union. But you also have independence movements in Japan: Ryukyu for example.

And you call us a client state of the USA? At least we have the guts to oppose the USA.

UK isn´t called US poodle for no reason. You are the archetype of a vasall state.

Well people will attempt to slander Britain to get to the US, of course. However as with the vote the other week where the British Parliament refused our participation in a Syrian conflict, we have a choice. Japan however didn't choose to be occupied and remain a vassal state all this years.

And what do you have today? An incompetent PM and a monarchy full of clowns. A big circus under the leadership of a demented queen. Your country loses influence faster than Prince William loses his hair. I guess harry can be lucky that his mom was eaten out from a riding trainer. He looks relative normal compared to the rest of the bunch.

On a sidenote, i found it emberassing that your Queen belittled herself at the Olympics with that show she performed. I´m sure our emperor will not let a double jump out off a helicopter for the laughs...in our olympics in 2020.

You realise she didn't jump out of a helicopter, right? It was a stunt-double. She was just filmed walking down a corridor.

Perhaps being the head of the commonwealth and 16 nations is getting her down and she fancied a bit of amusement?

[Akuma]

Thats why i said "double" it was laughable. But it also showed your current state. A clown Queen. A prince who dances naked in Las Vegas and a crown prince who marries a nobody...
Your monarchy is a joke. I would not greet your Queen. Because i see her lower than myself and way under my own standards.