Is Turkey European? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Polls on politics, news, current affairs and history.

Is Turkey European?

Yes
17
22%
No
42
55%
Maybe
14
18%
Other
3
4%
User avatar
By Fasces
#13174264
Geographically, yes. Culturally, in parts.

It has had a huge influence on areas seen as European, which begs the question as to why it of itself cannot be considered Europe (particularly if one sees Albania as European).

It is a tricky situation. I would personally say no, but can understand and sympathize with contrary arguments.
User avatar
By Corporatios
#13174271
particularly if one sees Albania as European


I'm curious why you think Albania should not be considered European. :?:
User avatar
By Annatar
#13174279
No.

Turkey is not Christian and hence not European. A country that doesn't share the fundamental basis of European civilisation can not be seen as European. The same goes for Albania and Bosnia.
User avatar
By Nets
#13174281
No, it's not. Not that that is a bad thing.
User avatar
By Fasces
#13174289
The most common argument against Turkish European identity refers to its religion more than anything else, which Albania shares.
User avatar
By telluro
#13174305
Fasces wrote:Geographically, yes. Culturally, in parts.
...
It is a tricky situation. I would personally say no, but can understand and sympathize with contrary arguments.

What he said.

In general, Turkey is contemporary European in its urban areas, and more "Mediterranean" in its rural areas, speaking about West Anatolia mainly.

Annatar wrote:No.

Turkey is not Christian and hence not European.

The same could apply for most Northern European countries today.
Last edited by telluro on 23 Sep 2009 16:41, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Annatar
#13174334
The same could apply for most Northern European countries today.


True but their civilisation is still based on Christianity. Progressivism for example has its root in Puritanism and social-democray in Lutheranism.
User avatar
By Eire69
#13174340
I don't consider it European at all. Geographically yes. But really its not suitbale for the EU. Its more modern middle east.
By Aekos
#13174404
Geographically yes.


Occupied Eastern Thrace and Istanbul form a small part of Turkey.
User avatar
By W01f
#13174407
Culturally, no. Geographically, partially. Ethnically, perhaps, since they are very genetically close to some other South-European groups like the Greek and Bulgarians. From a developmental standpoint, no, they are less developed than even the poorest European nations (namely looking at literacy, poverty rates, infant mortality rates, birth rates, level of industrialization, educational standards etc..)

Overall I'd say they're about 20% European, or more simply put: No.
User avatar
By telluro
#13174421
I wish to understand, what are the elements of European culture that Turkey does not possess? Historically, politically and geographically it is an Eastmed European power. Racially or ethnically the case could be made otherwise, but ethnically speaking today most Turks are Meds, and only slighly Asiatic.

Also, what is it about Islam that makes it intrinsically non-European? Say a European converts to Islam - does he lose some of his Europeaness in the process?
User avatar
By Figlio di Moros
#13174432
Aekos wrote:Geographically yes.

Occupied Eastern Thrace and Istanbul form a small part of Turkey.


Last I checked, you Serbs were atleast partially responsible for the collapse of the Byzantine Empire and the concurrent conquest of the area by the Turks to begin with... don't you consider it rather hypocritical to complain about the conquest of greek territory and forced assimilation of them into non-European culture when they'd otherwise be quite European in modernity?
User avatar
By Annatar
#13174434
Also, what is it about Islam that makes it intrinsically non-European?


The fact that it was not freely accepted by any European people and empasizes a wholy different set of values than Christianity.

Say a European converts to Islam - does he lose some of his Europeaness in the process?


Yes, unless he converts to some kind of europeanized form of Islam which as far as I know does not exist.
By Aekos
#13174439
Last I checked, you Serbs were atleast partially responsible for the collapse of the Byzantine Empire and the concurrent conquest of the area by the Turks to begin with... don't you consider it rather hypocritical to complain about the conquest of greek territory and forced assimilation of them into non-European culture when they'd otherwise be quite European in modernity?


What do "us Serbs" have anything to do with a discussion whether Turkey is European or not? Also, you might want to read up on some Byzantine history. The Serbs were invited to the Byzantine Empire, and were loyal citizens until its collapse. After the collapse, yes, Serbs did conquer much of Greece, but it was medieval European politics as usual.
User avatar
By Corporatios
#13174455
Byzantine Greeks are to blame too. Towards the end of the empire they had gathered all authorities and cut out the rest orthodox populations.
User avatar
By telluro
#13174484
Annatar wrote:The fact that it was not freely accepted by any European people and empasizes a wholy different set of values than Christianity.

And yet Turkey has embraced modern European culture.

Yes, unless he converts to some kind of europeanized form of Islam which as far as I know does not exist.

Islam which foregoes its politics is Europeanized Islam. The very idea of holding a religion as a private matter without interference in the public state is a late European ideal with roots in Christian teaching it is true, but if Muslims hold to that ideal, then their Islam is Europeanized. This is not to say that all Muslims in Europe do hold to that ideal - it's a conditional. And in any case, it is true of Turkish Muslim society as a whole, even I daresay of its mora conservative rural areas.
User avatar
By Annatar
#13174492
And yet Turkey has embraced modern European culture.


Turkey banished Islam from public life, it wasn't reformed it any serious way.

Islam which foregoes its politics is Europeanized Islam.


I agree but for a European form of Islam to truly exist as a belief system there would need to be a Madhhab emphasizing seperation of church and state, that is unique to Europe or at least adhered to by the vast majority of European Muslims.
By Agent Steel
#13174498
Other

Yes and no. Most of the country lies outside of Europe geographically but a small portion of it is inside of Europe. From this technical standpoint you'd have to consider this small part of Turkey as European, however, most of the country lies in Asia.

It is implausible that the IDF could not or would[…]

Moving on to the next misuse of language that sho[…]

@JohnRawls What if your assumption is wrong??? […]

There is no reason to have a state at all unless w[…]