[Beren]

I would rather say he was loyal to everyone oppressed, especially to his own people.

[Dave]

I would rather say he was loyal to everyone oppressed, especially to his own people.

That is the romantic image, but on his one venture to a different "oppressed" people he turned out to feel very, very negatively about them. No one really gives a damn about everyone "oppressed". To do so would prevent one from living a normal life, dissociation from distant tragedies being key to staying emotionally healthy.

[Beren]

He was a Cuban revolutionary, although he was an Argentinian. He was just familiar with Latin American people and culture, so he was some kind of a nationalist indeed, but he was against (Yankee) imperialism generally and basically.

[Dr House]

But you certainly need to reject WASP supremacy.

You do if you're Latin American. I certainly reject WASP supremacy. Nonetheless, rejecting Anglic supremacy does not imply rejecting white supremacy as a whole. Castro supported the restoration of the caste system in Cuba (which, by the way, I most certainly do not).

[Dave]

He was a Cuban revolutionary, although he was an Argentinian. He was just familiar with Latin American people and culture, so he was some kind of a nationalist indeed, but he was against (Yankee) imperialism generally and basically.

There is little to support this view aside from his adoption of Marxism, which was really just a vehicle of aggression against American imperialism. American imperialism being global, other Third World liberation movements were useful allies. Do you suppose the Diggers and Levelers were concerned about Oriental despotism? Little different than Ho Chi Minh's adoption of Marxism as a vehicle of aggression against French (and later American) colonialism.

[Beren]

Castro supported the restoration of the caste system in Cuba

What about Che?

There is little to support this view aside from his adoption of Marxism, which was really just a vehicle of aggression against American imperialism.

And a vehicle of getting closer to the USSR. He was rather a Latin American patriot than a Marxist, that's right. However, I'm sure he would have fought the apartheid if he had been born in Africa and I'm sure he did not appreciate it at all.

[Dave]

And a vehicle of getting closer to the USSR. He was rather a Latin American patriot than a Marxist, that's right. However, I'm sure he would have fought the apartheid if he had been born in Africa and I'm sure he did not appreciate it at all.

Born as what in Africa?

[Beren]

Born as himself.

[Dr House]

What about Che?

He died before he could do more than fap to Marx and kill a shitload of gringos, but he was born in Argentna in the early 20th century, and Argentines are notoriously racist.

Born as himself.

Himself would never have been born in South Africa, as there isn't an established Spanish community in South Africa. he'd have been born as an Afrikaner, an Anglo-African, Coloured or Black. Now answer the question.

[Beren]

He would have been more-or-less the same kind of person anyway if we assume he would have grown up the same way in Africa as he was grown up in Latin America. He would have sympathized with the poor and oppressed and rejected British or any kinds of European imperialism.

[Nets]

^ This is purely speculative.

[Beren]

What is purely speculative, Nets? The idea that you become the same kind of person basically if you are grown up the same way? Or are you just teasing me again?

[Dr House]

It would be very difficult for Che to grow up the exact same way in South Africa as he did in Argentina.

[Aekos]

Enough about Che.

It makes sense that after decades of being oppressed African blacks would lynch African whites. They are in the position of power and can do practically whatever they want to the helpless minority. What makes no sense if why anyone would defend this barbarism, defending these acts of savagery is no better than defending the KKK.

[Beren]

It would be very difficult for Che to grow up the exact same way in South Africa as he did in Argentina.

Well, he should have been born in another country actually, since he was born in Argentina not in Cuba. However, you yourself would be more-or-less yourself in Africa too, if you had been raised by the same kind of parents, the same kind of way, etc.

[Aekos]

Beren, there's a thing called an environment, a racial and ethnic identity, a language, a culture, a history...your comments are astounding.

[Beren]

The most important things are your family-background and your own basic personality.

[Aekos]

Both are shaped by your environment. You think that one is born with his personality?

[Beren]

Born with his basic personality, yes. And the same kind of parents raise their children the same way everywhere.

[Le Rouge]

My ideas are not traitorous to the class I belong to--the oppressed people of the world. I have no desire to be 'colonized' because I am already from the poor working class and understand oppression and the necessity of it's universal abolition. And there is no 'us', dave. You are petty-bourgeoisie. I am working class. There is no unity.