[smithbrian86]

This has got to be one of the greatest examples of the "land of the free" that I have ever seen . And who denies they are pre-fascist? Does this upset anyone here? I know it bothers me!

http://kron.com/Global/story.asp?s=%20%201268949

OAKLAND (KRON) -- Some teachers in Oakland are rallying behind two students who were interrogated by the Secret Service. That followed remarks the teenagers made about the President during a class discussion. The incident has many people angry.

For years the classroom has been the setting for the free expression of ideas, but two weeks ago certain ideas led to two students being taken out of class and grilled by the United States Secret Service.

It happened at Oakland High. The discussion was about the war in Iraq. That's when two students made comments about the President of the United States. While the exact wording is up for debate, the teacher didn't consider it mere criticism, but a direct threat and she called the Secret Service.

Teacher Cassie Lopez says, "They were so shaken up and afraid."

Now, other teachers are coming to the aid of the two students and crying foul.

"I would start with the teacher, she made a poor judgement," Lopez says.

Teacher Larry Felson says, "What we're concerned about is academic freedom and that students have the right to free expression in the classroom."

Even worse, they say, is the fact that the students were grilled by federal agents without legal counsel or their parents present, just the principal.

"When one of the students asked, 'do we have to talk now? Can we be silent? Can we get legal council?' they were told, 'we own you, you don't have any legal rights,'" Felson says.

"We don't want federal agents or police coming in our schools and interrogating our children at the whim of someone who has a hunch something might be wrong," Lopez says.

The union representing Oakland teachers requires that students be afforded legal counsel and parental guidance before they're interrogated by authorities. It's too late for the two involved in this incident, and teachers say it's something they'll carry with them for years.

"I tell you the looks on those childrens faces. I don't know if they'll say anything about anything ever again. Is that what we want? I don't think we want that," says Lopez.

(Copyright 2003, KRON 4. All rights reserved.)

[The Old CPGB]

I don't think that's really a laughing matter. In fact it's scary. Very, very scary!

[El Cid]

The US is free, you just can't say everything you want. Well, you can, but it is hazardous for your health.

[TomThumbKOP]

I realize I will be lambasted for this, but I don't see the problem with the Secret Service investigating a threat to the president.

[TomThumbKOP]

First as to them being high school students. Columbine among other events has shown that high school students are perfectly capable of atrocious acts. THe fact that they are young should not dismiss their intent or ability.

As for the violation of their rights. In the first place, how do you know their rights were violated? Were you there? Has anyone that was there stated what was said (notice that the only person saying that they were denied counsel was not present thus making it hearsay). Next, were they ever placed under arrest? Lastly, will what they said in the interview ever be used in a court of law?

[El Cid]

Oh no, now even teenagers are a threat to the USA. Can we ever be safe?

[ahab]

Eh, so so, the highschoolers were stupid to think that anything would actually change by doing that if they were serious. The person that did the worst in this case is the teacher who wayy over reacted, the SS is supposed to do this sort of thing, and they have the legal right to. They've had this legal right for... years...

oddly there is another topic about this: What a world we live in... *sigh*[/url]

[Yuji]

(Ha, long time no post )

I'm slowly getting the impression that the United States of America can be free, as long as you have the freedom to say only things that the higher authorities want.

[ahab]

uhhh... you can critisize officials all you want, just don't threaten them

the anti-war protests for one

[KurtFF8]

uhhh... you can critisize officials all you want, just don't threaten them

yeeeee

[El Cid]

Who said the children threatened them??

[TomThumbKOP]

The teacher said the students threatened the president.

[El Cid]

Complete bull all in all though.

[TomThumbKOP]

Why is it bull?

[El Cid]

For making fun of their president? The teacher overreacted and probably wasn't thinking, not surprsing for an american teacher.

[TomThumbKOP]

How do you know what they said? How do you know they didn't say "Well, it doesn't matter how crappy Bush is sense we're planning to kill him"

[TomThumbKOP]

And even if the investigation was justified, the fact remains that they violated some serious legal rights of the children. That is not cool.

Even disregarding the fact that everything in the article is hearsay, there were no civil rights abused here. Since you simply say they "violated some serious legal rights of the children" without stating which specific rights you feel were violated, my response adequate.

First of all, I don't recall you denying any of what was reported to have happened:

I stated that the only person who addressed what happened was not present. IMO this adequately denies what happened as presented in the article. If you would like me to be more explicit, I don't believe hearsay to be evidence. Hence there is no evidence that there was any wrongdoing on the part of the SS.

If this report is true, (and I certainly take all news reports with a grain of salt) then what the SS did was wrong

I agree that all reporting should be taken with a grain of salt. I maintain that even as reported, there was no violation of their rights. The report even states that they don't know what the students said. Thus since the teacher who was there thought there was a threat, I would trust his or her judgement in the matter more than someone who wasn't even present.

[uglygoat]

we still don't know what the kids said. any threat, real or perceived made against the prez is gonna draw you some unwanted, although not necisarilly unjustified attention fromthe men in black. that's what they do. now telling the kids 'we own you' is more likely than not a scare tactic to keep them in line, and is part of the 'good cop bad cop' routine, while not necisarily ethical, it certianly isn't illegal...

but this debate is without merit, imo if we don't know what the kids said. with out that key bit of info, it's only speculation, that eventually leads to the bash america dog and pony show...

[paul30]

Two quotes:

"Free speech is all very well as long as you don't try to use it."

"In America, you can have as much free speech as you can buy."

[socokid]

now telling the kids 'we own you' is more likely than not a scare tactic to keep them in line, and is part of the 'good cop bad cop' routine, while not necisarily ethical, it certianly isn't illegal...

I say it doesn't matter what the kids said. Free speech means just that.

I don't think it was something like "well, me an Johnny have a truck outside, filled with gas and guns, and we're going to the white house to start trouble!"

I just don't see that. If it was more like "I hate the president and what he's doing", then this was an absolutely horrible incident on the part of these Federal agents AND the teacher that called them. But, like you said, we don't know for sure. I just don't think other teachers, parents and students would be backing these two kids if it what they said was in fact a direct threat to our president or other people.

My opinion, this is yet another sign of unchecked power run amok.