[Ombrageux]

Again, postwar Europeans economic success tends to be inversely proportional to the amount of Marshall Aid they received. Britain got the most and had the crappiest economy, France got a moderate amount (and squandered most of it in war) and did OK, West Germany got the least and was most prosperous.

[Daktoria]

Again, postwar Europeans economic success tends to be inversely proportional to the amount of Marshall Aid they received. Britain got the most and had the crappiest economy, France got a moderate amount (and squandered most of it in war) and did OK, West Germany got the least and was most prosperous.

I agree. It goes to show the effectiveness of free markets.

That said, the Marshall Plan was about guaranteeing national security.

[Daktoria]

Baseless paranoid assumptions which are remnants of cold war era should remain in "dustbin of history".

Are you saying Western Europe would have had the upper hand if it chose to pressure the Soviet Union after the fall of Berlin?

Last I checked, the Soviets had tons more personnel and materiel in Europe than the West at the end of the war.

Furthermore, Stalin was very concerned about being cornered off by international capitalism.

No but with creation of NATO and German (West) unification.

Those were American pet projects after the widespread destruction of Europe from WW2.

The point is I am not blaming here any particular side but we can very much argue ad infinitum about who started first.

Leveling?

[fuser]

Are you saying Western Europe would have had the upper hand if it chose to pressure the Soviet Union after the fall of Berlin?

What is the need of this "pressure"?

Last I checked, the Soviets had tons more personnel and materiel in Europe than the West at the end of the war.

And? Having more military equipment =/= intention to attack and take over the Europe. Russia still possess more military hardware than rest of Europe does it implies that it is going to attack Europe in near future?

Furthermore, Stalin was very concerned about being cornered off by international capitalism.

Hence the defensive stance of USSR through various buffer states and he was concerned rightly, International capitalism had been waging war against USSR from her inception, the alliance during ww2 was a temporarily one. The concern was very realistic.

Bottom line being "International capitalism" was on offensive while USSR on defensive.

[Baff]

We base our defence planning on capability, not intention.

Opportunities aren't difficult to resist when they aren't available.

[layman]

Another libertarian championing the effectiveness of American economic and military interventionism. Ron Paul wouldn’t be impressed

[mikema63]

Your a Libertarian Baff?

[Baff]

<---- English.

[Figlio di Moros]

Many Europeans see American influence as a cancer in their country.

This, it is particularly bad in Britain (and I assume the rest of the Anglosphere) where we have their "culture" bombarding us constantly with shit music and moronic TV, it feels rather like being under siege.

Right, with shows like American Idol, Masterchef, the Weakest Link, or Celebrity Fit Club? Wait....

It isn't the same thing. Austria is a country, Utah is not. No one bar an American should know where Utah is. This is the American arrogance people are talking about.

1) The only states I've seen mentioned on British shows or movies are ones like Utah, Idaho, or Montana. I'd assume you'd have some knowledge of where they are.
2) Utah's bigger than your country.
3) You're highlighting your own bias- the US is, what, twice the size of Europe? You could fit the lowlands in my county, and the fact you know nothing about what's not in your backyard isn't improved because "they're a different nation." How many Brits know where Kurdistan or Kandahar are, considering we're both in both? What about Ughyrstan, Shanghei, Sakhalin, or Harbin?

The real reason you hate us is you're not any smarter, and your countries aren't any more important than Utah, Idaho, Oregon, or Harbin, Isaan, Bengledesh, and Orissa. I really couldn't give two shits about luxemburg, and I doubt Indians, Orientals, or Hispanics would, either.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

Most Europeans do not know all capitals of Europe either. The further east the less people in western Europe know. I sometimes mix up the Baltic capitals, for instance, and that's a very common mistake. I'd also guess that most Europeans would not be able to easily list all countries in Europe. They would probably miss one or two.

I don't know how many Americans are ignorant about the geography of their own continent, so it's not clear how geographic knowledge compares.

[Someone5]

Well that's downright untrue. Most of the fall of Germany in WWII was due to the influence of Russia and Germany's own overreach. The USA joined the party fairly late, and while they did make a difference, giving them most of the thanks for liberating France or the like is ridiculous.

Let's be entirely correct here; if not for US intervention in WWII, the map of Europe would mostly be filled with "People's States".

[Rei Murasame]

What?

[Someone5]

What?

If the US had not involved itself in Europe during WWII, it obviously wouldn't have been interested in negotiating on behalf of some rather devastated countries when the Soviets won.

[Rei Murasame]

Well, the Soviets wouldn't have won anything, would they?

[Mike Powell]

I got one example here, back in year 2000 when the late Saddam Hussein announced that he will use EURO for oil tradings, the U.S. immediately threat Iraq with all their might and wonder. And after the invasion 2003 and the fall of Saddam Hussein, the U.S. in no time install a puppet government to reinforce the petrodollar policy which caused the European members to have HUGE losses on their currency tradings. Which not surprisingly, MOST Europeans during that time HATED the Americans particularly the French which has already suffered American's thievery back in 1971.

Another example is an older one, during the late 1960's and 1970's, the French president Charles de Gaulle asked for their gold reserve in New York Federal Reserve Bank but later rejected by the U.S. government (hope I'm right about the sources). And the German also aware of the increased money supply in USD's system that can devalued their currency and FIRST to leave the Bretton-Wood Monetary System and followed by Switzerland's ejection of their CHF from the Bretton-Wood system. Despite the congressional move the USD still in free-fall against the European currencies. And with the inflation rose more than 5%, finally President Nixon issued the Executive Order 11615 pursuant to the Economic Stabilization Act of 1970 and therefore closed the gold windows on USD's policy on August 15th 1971. And this, has essentially ROBBED the wealth of the European governments' investments.

[Baff]

Dude, the currency in which oil is denominated is not a big to deal anyone.

It doesn't make the European Union a richer place if oil is denominated in Euros any more than the UK has a greater abundance of electricity because electricity is denominated in Watts.

[IQless1]

As an American, I should be upset by such a question, but I'm not. It may be that I am not the typical American Europeans must surely be seeing in their news.

I'm not particularly patriotic, in the sense that I don't join the crowd when they rant about my country's virtues, whether I agree with a particular virtue or not. I scowl when I see such over enthusiastic displays.

After 9-11, some 70% of Americans were caught in a frenzy of patriotic spirit. The remaining 30%'s calls for rationality (as well as the World's calls) went unheeded as the rest of the country allowed Bush, Jr. to invade Iraq. That angers me still, the irrationality of it, the senselessness of it.

In my small city, we have a tradition of celebrating cultural diversity by hosting a Parade of Nations. We line the main street with the flags of countries represented in the parade. Nearly all of the participants are from a local college. One year, a year or two after 9-11, a local woman single-handedly forced the removal of the flags. She was enraged that they were not all American! ...in a Parade of Nations!

Overly patriotic people are worthy of being mocked by my self and Europeans alike, so please, feel free to express your disgust at Americans when they become irrational. I do.

[The Immortal Goon]

I got one example here, back in year 2000 when the late Saddam Hussein announced that he will use EURO for oil tradings, the U.S. immediately threat Iraq with all their might and wonder. And after the invasion 2003 and the fall of Saddam Hussein, the U.S. in no time install a puppet government to reinforce the petrodollar policy which caused the European members to have HUGE losses on their currency tradings. Which not surprisingly, MOST Europeans during that time HATED the Americans particularly the French which has already suffered American's thievery back in 1971.

This is a narrative that dries me mad. Everyone likes to forget that Tony-Fucking-Blair came on a tour of the US telling a skeptical American public that he was no real friend of Bush, but the US must act with the UK and take out Saddam because he had WMDs.

That helped a lot of Americans get on board with the venture.

Then the UK got their oil fields and peaced out.

Now look, this wasn't Europe's fault because the Liberals in the UK government saw advantages to the situation that presented itself, but let's not pretend that the same isn't true for the Americans. France had made deals with the Iraq regime and had nothing to gain in the war. We can pretend that everyone's at fault and everyone's a victim, but let's be honest—France rampages through Africa in the same way the US does through Central America. The UK will take everything it can; and the Germans are happy spending the incoming money that isn't sitting in Swiss banks. Canadian stocks look nice when they're selling petrol to keep the military engines pumping, "neutral" countries like Ireland or Saudi Arabia are happy to have money roll in from their airports open for the only people with airplanes to use. Americans like to be dramatic and jump into the street and scream about the blood on their hands making sure everyone sees them say, "WHAT HAVE WE DONE?" But that doesn't mean everyone on the street isn't covering their bloody hands at the same time.

The system is at fault, and it's doing exactly what it's supposed to be doing. Nobody becomes or remains a monster based on whether they're on the east or west side of the Atlantic.

[Mike Powell]

Dude, the currency in which oil is denominated is not a big to deal anyone.

It doesn't make the European Union a richer place if oil is denominated in Euros any more than the UK has a greater abundance of electricity because electricity is denominated in Watts.

O.K. then why U.S./NATO attack Libya weeks after the gold-backed Dinar proposal with African nations?

You should thank (or no thanks) to Henry Kissinger managed to persuade the Arab OPEC nations to use USD for oil tradings as an exchange with U.S. military "assistance" after the Yom Kippur War in 1973. And you should check the inflation rate in U.S. during the 1970's and again, you should thank Paul Volcker who raised the short-term interest rates to 21.5% that may had attracted bond investors to USD that brought the go-go 1980's.

True, it doesn't make E.U. a richer region with Euro-for-oil tradings. But what happen if nations one-by-one switch Euro for oil tradings rather than USD? Of course, you'll ask for those countries to burn to ground, just like those elitists in D.C. and Wall Street laughed when Libya torched.

[ArtAllm]

Europeans don't hate Americans or America...

Well, I really hate some Americans, especially the politicians who are potentially reckless and corrupts mass murderers, even if some of them get the Nobel Peace Prize.

But I have a lot of relatives and friends in the USA, and I love them.