[ness31]

Enjoy your polio, but I'm definitely immune.

You just assume I’m anti-vax

[Fasces]

No, you're just anti-vax requirements.

[ness31]

No, you're just anti-vax requirements.

I’m anti ruining peoples lives by forcing a medical procedure on them with a leaky vaccine that didn’t stop transmission. Sure, if that’s how you’d like to frame it

[Fasces]

I’m anti ruining peoples lives by forcing a medical procedure on them with a leaky vaccine that didn’t stop transmission. Sure, if that’s how you’d like to frame it

[ness31]

Bravo. Enjoy your stats, but I’m definitely immune

[Drlee]

You know I have seen sooooo many Trumpists and antivaxxers reduced to despair as they watch their not vaccinated loved on die for no reason at all. Do you know how many of them try to get medical people to tell them that the fact that they were not vaccinated did not contribute to the death. And the answer they get is, "I am sorry for your loss. The best thing you can do now is help educate your friends and family about getting vaccinated so we don't have to have this conversation again."

The fact is that over a million Americans have died of covid. A very significant number of them because they refused to be vaccinated. As Fasces points out a disproportionate number of Republicans because of the murderous political rhetoric begun by Trump and carried on by this sociopath followers. (Or just the really stupid ones if that is not too subtle a difference.)

There have been 225,000 Americans who have died of Covid 19 so far in 2022; the overwhelming majority of them preventable by a 15 minute trip to the grocery store/pharmacy, etc. And this vaccination is free.

So when you hear utterly stupid shit like the unfeeling and dangerous garbage that Ness is spreading just consider the source and resolve to not follow stupid people.

In June of 2021 the AMA published the results of a survey of their members. (Doctors.) At that time 96% of physicians were fully vaccinated and 45% of the remaining 4% doctors planned to be vaccinated.

Here is a headline from Forbes. Forbes is a business magazine with a mostly conservative point of view:

Fully vaccinated people are 93% less likely to die of COVID compared to unvaccinated people

Squares with my data.

But you make your choice Ness. The scar from the tracheotomy will heal if you live and you can cover it up with a scarf.

[ness31]

So where is the control group for this vaccine?

The people who were vaccinated and died anyway, were going to die anyway. The people who got vaccinated and were fine, may have just been fine without the vaccine.

The truth is , we will never know. The way this vaccine was rolled out and the data collected was the very essence of anti-science.

[Drlee]

So where is the control group for this vaccine?

You do not understand your own question. I am not in the mood to educate someone who starts with such an idiotic question.

Pro tip. Get a BS degree in Public Health. Then get an MPH. Then go to Hopkins and do a DrPH and post doc work. Then work for the US Public Health Service for several years. Then ask again. Oh wait! You won't ask that question again.

Or. You could believe this guy who recommends nearly universal vaccination:

In a 2022 analysis of Google Scholar citations, _______ ranked as the 44th most-cited living researcher. According to the Web of Science, Dr._____ ranked 9th out of 3.3 million authors in the field of immunology by total citation count between 1980 and April 2022. During the same period, he ranked 22nd out of 3.3 million authors in the field of research & experimental medicine, and 715th out of 1.4 million authors in the field of general & internal medicine.

Dr. ____ has delivered major lectures all over the world and is the recipient of numerous prestigious awards, including the Presidential Medal of Freedom (the highest honor given to a civilian by the President of the United States), the National Medal of Science, the George M. Kober Medal of the Association of American Physicians, the Mary Woodard Lasker Award for Public Service, the Albany Medical Center Prize in Medicine and Biomedical Research, the Robert Koch Gold Medal, the Prince Mahidol Award, and the Canada Gairdner Global Health Award. Dr._____ also has received 58 honorary doctoral degrees from universities in the United States and abroad.

Dr._____ is a member of the National Academy of Sciences, the National Academy of Medicine, the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and the American Philosophical Society, as well as other professional societies including the American College of Physicians, the American Society for Clinical Investigation, the Association of American Physicians, the Infectious Diseases Society of America, the American Association of Immunologists, and the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma & Immunology. He serves on the editorial boards of many scientific journals and as an author, coauthor, or editor of more than 1,400 scientific publications, including several textbooks.

Or. We could believe you Ness......Guess who smart people are going with?

[ness31]

No, I understood my question perfectly thanks, nor do I want to trouble you for an explanation. I simply put the those few words out into the ether. “Where is the control group?”. You can continue to think me foolish and dangerous and whatever else you like

[late]

No, I understood my question perfectly thanks

Nope.

[ness31]

Whatever you say

[ckaihatsu]

So where is the control group for this vaccine?

The people who were vaccinated and died anyway, were going to die anyway. The people who got vaccinated and were fine, may have just been fine without the vaccine.

The truth is , we will never know. The way this vaccine was rolled out and the data collected was the very essence of anti-science.

As long as you're definitely not anti-vax, this is an *unignorable* point.

(For reference, the following is a scientific-method-derived taxonomy for everyday use.) (That I developed.)

9. OPTIMIZATION / PERFECTION / FINE-TUNING

8. CONCEIVABLE / IMAGINED / GOAL / WISHFUL THINKING

7. EXPECTED / REASONED / THEORIZED

6. OBSERVED (after) / EXECUTION / HOW-IT-WENT

5. EXPERIMENTATION by SCALE or SCOPE (core, periphery)

4. ACTIVITY / TASK / SOCIAL ORGANIZATION / MATERIAL INPUT-OUTPUT

3. HYPOTHESIS (of new situation) / RESPONSE

2. ANALYSIS (of RELEVANT PAST) / CONFIRMATION

1. OBSERVED (before) / RELEVANT PAST / RESEARCH

viewtopic.php?p=15218131#p15218131

[ckaihatsu]

Okay, I'm seeing that my treatment from February -- regarding the 'Freedom For Convoys' bullshit -- applies here as well:

I'd like to point something out, speaking of my frameworks....

The present-day fascist conflation of the [1] medical / biology domain, with the [2] social / political domain, shows them to be blatantly *mismatched* -- easily seen using one of my frameworks.

"Upwards", from 'micro' to 'macro' in scale, for 'cooperation / competition / games / sports', we have the levels of (1) 'participants / players', (2) 'agreements / scenarios', (3) 'labors / gameplay', (4) 'conferences / tournaments', (5) 'history', and (6) 'patterns' at the uppermost.

In *parallel*, but distinctly-different-from, that domain of '[social history]', we have the domain of 'science'.

From micro-to-macro again, there's (1) 'agents', (2) 'environment', (3) 'data', (4) 'interactions', (5) 'mathematics', and (6) 'patterns' at the uppermost.

So, for the virus / biology, (3) 'data' makes more sense than (3) 'labors / gameplay'.

Anyone who's anti-disease (90%+ in Canada) should / would be more interested in *data*, than in fascist-antics *labors / gameplay*.

The appropriate domain here is clearly that of '[medical] science', and *not* that of '[social history] cooperation / competition / games / sports'.


Humanities-Technology Chart 2.0

Spoiler: show

viewtopic.php?p=15212430#p15212430

[ckaihatsu]

(Again.)

Anyone who's anti-disease (90%+ in Canada) should / would be more interested in *data*, than in fascist-antics *labors / gameplay*.

The appropriate domain here is clearly that of '[medical] science', and *not* that of '[social history] cooperation / competition / games / sports'.

It's *necessarily* socially-subjective *groupthink* if the social-organization in question is *not* based on scientifically verifiable *empirical* approaches (like Engel's 'scientific socialism').


The Madness of Groupthink

viewtopic.php?f=45&t=182487

[BlutoSays]

What a load of shit. Notwithstanding the fact that not vaccinated people are dumber that a bag of hammers, there was no mob after them. Science is after them. They are not only a danger to themselves they are a danger to the rest of us.

I see no compelling reason to hire someone who could pose a danger to my other employees. Indeed, as an employer, "I" am obligated to try to keep my employees safe. And their families. Their elderly friends.

Not being vaccinated should not be seen as some kind of individual rights thing. It is a public health issue. The profoundly stupid people who refuse vaccines, without a valid medical reason, put all of the rest of us at risk because they are such special snowflakes. No sympathy. If I had my way I would put them on an island with the other MAGA fools and let them choke in their own fluids. Covid is a really nasty way to die.

I wish you could see it Ness. Watch someone in isolation gasping out their last breath all alone, because the Republican Party has deluded them into believing that Covid has something to do with "rights" . It is not a pretty thing Ness. I hope you don't have to experience it. But if you do, and you are not vaccinated, with your dying gasp, panicked as only a smothering person can be, you can remember that you could have been home with a cat on your lap. A cat, by the way, that you made sure was up on all of its vaccinations. It will miss you.

Some of the things you say.

Keep your felines.

[Drlee]

I don't GAS if the vaccination is free. It's also much riskier than other vaccines. And I'm speaking as someone who got one J&J shot, but went no further.

Wrong. But who is surprised that you made the decision to endanger yourself and other. Goes right along with the body armor sized to handle a beer belly and your assault weapon to use to kill US Soldiers.

...there are differing points of view and you don't get the luxury of just imposing your views on others by force.

Tell that to every soldier who has ever been drafted and died for his country.

The ignorance of the right these days is stunning. Stupid enough to let their "leaders" make a political issue out of a disease. Shades of Ronald Reagan. At least, in the end, he came around.

"It is a great vaccine. It is a safe vaccine, and it is something that works."
— Former President Trump

After being vaccinated on live TV...“anyone here who hasn’t gotten the shot, who is eligible, to go get it.” Mike Pence

"If you are vaccinated, fully vaccinated, the chance of you getting seriously ill or dying from COVID is effectively zero ... These vaccines are saving lives," Ron DeSantis