Chris Hayes talks ebikes - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By late
#15264559
I am a big, big fan of Chris Hayes. He used to do a half hour show on MSNBC that was freaking brilliant. He made everyone else look like they were stuck in slomo.. Seriously.

I'm also a big, big, huge fan of ebikes. Did I mention big? They are going to change the world, accomplishing things like fighting climate change are almost incidental.

So put the two together, and I'm a happy camper.


So... here's Chris and the RadPower guy talking about ebikes:

"So one thing I’ll say, so the pedal-assist is really a cool feeling. It feels like how I imagined the future would feel if you had like a robotic suit or like a jetpack because you’re doing the thing, but you’re just getting this energy from somewhere that’s not your body, but you’re also doing it. So it does have this kind of very cool superpower feeling or like bionic man feeling when you’re pedaling.Chris Hayes: So there’s two ways that I think about this. So one was Copenhagen was really a revelation. You know, Copenhagen is sort of famously next to Amsterdam, probably the best biking city in the world, at least some sort of design perspective.

And what you have in Copenhagen that you don’t have in any American city, even good biking cities, is there’s three levels. There’s a pedestrian sidewalk. There’s a biking lane, and the biking lane is at a different grade than the pedestrian sidewalks. You are separated, like, physically. And then there’s a car area which is on yet another grade.

And New York City, like the stat I heard recently was, in areas where protected bike lanes were installed, the accident rate for all road users, so that’s car drivers included, decreased 40 to 50 percent. So it’s a really actionable tool that a lot of cities are doing. So shoutout to the local city transportation agencies that are driving this change, because it’s not being driven as hard at the national level as it is at the city level. We’re seeing real gains.

Mike Radenbaugh: I mentioned there’s always something new driving adoption each year, and so the pandemic, the rising cost of living, having more selection, consumers' increased focus on sustainable transportation, it’s all these things continue to come, and ridership continues to grow for net-new reasons every year. So that’s why I think this has never been a boom-and-bust kind of business or category is there is incredible product market fit."


https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc-podcast/why ... t-n1302864
#15264563
Your enthusiasm sounds like you've consumed a bit too much msnb/cnn/etc. :lol: Man, you come off as such a standard American liberal. Sorry if I'm offending. Anyway, to the point.

I'm all for making cities more pedestrian and bike friendly. It's time to build cities for people first, and personal cars last. That said... come'on... ebikes will not save the world. In fact, ebikes are dependent on technology innovations that are motivated by other industries, not ebikes. Things like house batteries for storing solar energy, as well as non-lithium heavy EV batteries, etc. etc. It is only when the battery problem is solved in those other much bigger industries; that ebikes will take the residual benefits of those new techs. That is, if there is world saving to do, it will be done in other sectors of the economy, not bikes...

In other words, if you want to save the world with ebikes, don't invest in ebikes. :lol:

I'll try to redeem myself with you a bit and say, yes, ebikes are pretty cool though. Let's just temper the excitement.
By late
#15264585
Rancid wrote:
Your enthusiasm sounds like you've consumed a bit too much msnb/cnn/etc. :lol: Man, you come off as such a standard American liberal. Sorry if I'm offending. Anyway, to the point.

I'm all for making cities more pedestrian and bike friendly. It's time to build cities for people first, and personal cars last. That said... come'on... ebikes will not save the world. In fact, ebikes are dependent on technology innovations that are motivated by other industries, not ebikes. Things like house batteries for storing solar energy, as well as non-lithium heavy EV batteries, etc. etc. It is only when the battery problem is solved in those other much bigger industries; that ebikes will take the residual benefits of those new techs. That is, if there is world saving to do, it will be done in other sectors of the economy, not bikes...

In other words, if you want to save the world with ebikes, don't invest in ebikes. :lol:

I'll try to redeem myself with you a bit and say, yes, ebikes are pretty cool though. Let's just temper the excitement.



Me and the wife both have ebikes.

I didn't say ebikes would save the world, but they will make you healthier, shrink your carbon footprint, and can play a big role in making cities better places to live.



https://www.youtube.com/@NotJustBikes
#15264588
late wrote:shrink your carbon footprint


I wonder how much riding you have to do, to actually be neutral on the bike.
#15264591
What we need is an e-bike with airbags. It’s the exposure on longer distances that will deter people.

I had a scooter for literally a number of weeks before it was sold from under me. I thought I was doing pretty well :hmm:
#15264601
Rancid wrote:I wonder how much riding you have to do, to actually be neutral on the bike.


This depends on what you ride, how often, and whether or not you have a car.

So, most of a bike’s footprint is its embodied energy, i.e. the energy it takes to make it.

E-bikes have less embodied energy than cars, but more than real bikes.

Cars can be used year round, while most people will not ride bikes in winter. So, most people have both, thereby negating the embodied energy advantage. And e-bikes do not run very far in the winter.

So, if a SoCal resident is buying one to replace a car, then it is pretty quick at paying back its embodied energy by saving fossil fuel. But an Albertan who buys an e-bike and ends up towing it his car to some pretty mountain spot to ride it is actually increasing his carbon footprint massively with this e-bike.

I prefer real bikes. Simple, dependable, cheap.
#15264606
Rancid wrote:Your enthusiasm sounds like you've consumed a bit too much msnb/cnn/etc. :lol: Man, you come off as such a standard American liberal. Sorry if I'm offending. Anyway, to the point.

I'm all for making cities more pedestrian and bike friendly. It's time to build cities for people first, and personal cars last. That said... come'on... ebikes will not save the world. In fact, ebikes are dependent on technology innovations that are motivated by other industries, not ebikes. Things like house batteries for storing solar energy, as well as non-lithium heavy EV batteries, etc. etc. It is only when the battery problem is solved in those other much bigger industries; that ebikes will take the residual benefits of those new techs. That is, if there is world saving to do, it will be done in other sectors of the economy, not bikes...

In other words, if you want to save the world with ebikes, don't invest in ebikes. :lol:

I'll try to redeem myself with you a bit and say, yes, ebikes are pretty cool though. Let's just temper the excitement.


Agree. I imagine a world decades from now when everyone is driving EV cars, and the people who like biking now will be riding ebikes, or e-mopeds. Adults who ride bikes are mostly white urbanites. Nothing wrong with that, that's just the demographic.

Actually the EV cars will probably be self-driving, and maybe operate on an Uber service model, though i imagine some will still own them. Ebikes might have self-driving options too, and have a similar Uber service. I just convinced myself to go invest in Uber lol.
#15264608
Unthinking Majority wrote:I just convinced myself to go invest in Uber lol.


If you are looking for very long term gains, yes. However, in the short term Uber is crazy unprofitable. Their blitz-scaling tactic didn't work. Hence why their prices had to go up. More often than not, more expensive than a regular cab.
#15264611
Rancid wrote:If you are looking for very long term gains, yes. However, in the short term Uber is crazy unprofitable. Their blitz-scaling tactic didn't work. Hence why their prices had to go up. More often than not, more expensive than a regular cab.


I lied. I don't usually invest in individual stocks. I got burned once. Diversify my risk now. But more risk more reward. Maybe I should change my strategy. But i do whatever Warren Buffett tells people to do who don't have the time to invest in hardcore finance research.
By late
#15264639
Rancid wrote:
I wonder how much riding you have to do, to actually be neutral on the bike.



The bike boom in Europe was different, it was not only larger, a big percentage were ebikes, with cities working to be more bike friendly. So not only are there more people on bikes, the distance people commute is getting longer.

This is not a fad, and it is having an impact.
By late
#15264640
Unthinking Majority wrote:
What about an electric horse?



"Mike Radenbaugh: This is a moment of a revolution underway. And with that is going to come continued controversy because it’s a lot of change happening. After 100 years of car culture, we now found a better way to go back to the horse effectively, but this horse just happens to be electric and you don’t have to feed it."
#15264699
late wrote:"Mike Radenbaugh: This is a moment of a revolution underway. And with that is going to come continued controversy because it’s a lot of change happening. After 100 years of car culture, we now found a better way to go back to the horse effectively, but this horse just happens to be electric and you don’t have to feed it."


Horses go pretty fast though. Ebikes will be good for urban environments, shorter distance needs. Speed is an issue for bikes over moderate to long distances, and speed on 2-wheels becomes unsafe. Maybe much less so once automation comes in for cars. If your work is a ~10m+ car drive away or more then speed is the issue. Few want to commute for an hour.

Maybe we can shrink cars too. That would help traffic problems a lot. ATV-sized 4-wheel type small vehicle (better stability/safety on 4 wheels than 2)...or an EV smart car? Or also a 4-wheel moped for urban travel?

If an Uber-like service replaces a lot of car ownership, the size and type of EV that comes to your could depend on where you live or where you're traveling. Small vehicle for traveling downtown or short travel. More legroom for longer distances, sit back and watch TV.
#15265182
Ebikes are great - I have 2. They top out around 45 kmph and can reach anywhere within the city and back (around 30 km range) on a single charge. I do my daily commute by ebike - 12km, 22 minutes.

They're a perfect solution for the 'last mile' problem, and I hope battery tech continues to advance.
By late
#15265191
Unthinking Majority wrote:
Horses go pretty fast though. Ebikes will be good for urban environments, shorter distance needs. Speed is an issue for bikes over moderate to long distances, and speed on 2-wheels becomes unsafe. Maybe much less so once automation comes in for cars. If your work is a ~10m+ car drive away or more then speed is the issue. Few want to commute for an hour.

Maybe we can shrink cars too. That would help traffic problems a lot. ATV-sized 4-wheel type small vehicle (better stability/safety on 4 wheels than 2)...or an EV smart car? Or also a 4-wheel moped for urban travel?

If an Uber-like service replaces a lot of car ownership, the size and type of EV that comes to your could depend on where you live or where you're traveling. Small vehicle for traveling downtown or short travel. More legroom for longer distances, sit back and watch TV.



Transportation costs will keep going up.
By late
#15265193
Fasces wrote:
Ebikes are great - I have 2. They top out around 45 kmph and can reach anywhere within the city and back (around 30 km range) on a single charge. I do my daily commute by ebike - 12km, 22 minutes.

They're a perfect solution for the 'last mile' problem, and I hope battery tech continues to advance.



I imagine if you haven't seen bike friendly cities, and how ebikes can fit into the mix, it's not easy to realise it can work, that it is actually working, as we speak.
By late
#15265445
"Many European cities and countries are known for their strong biking culture and infrastructure that make it fun and safe for visitors, and help improve health, lower congestion and create more livable cities for residents.A new resolution – just passed by the European Parliament – aims to double cycling on the continent in coming years and make it even easier and better.

"This important resolution, which reflects many of our longstanding advocacy and policy demands, represents a key milestone for cycling,” Jill Warren, chief executive of the European Cyclists' Federation (ECF), said in a statement when the news was announced on Thursday. “We applaud the entire European Parliament for adopting an EU Cycling Strategy that can unlock cycling’s potential to enable more people to cycle – and to cycle more safely – all across Europe.”

The “cycling ecosystem” already employs one million people in Europe today, according to the European Cyclists’ Federation, which noted that the resolution “marks a recognition of cycling as a fully-fledged mode of transport and key industrial asset to meet long-term climate and clean manufacturing objectives.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tanyamohn/2023/02/17/biking-in-europe-is-about-to-get-even-better/?sh=3d3c49557ac2
#15265463
The harder part will be developing infrastructure in cities built after the widespread use of cars.

Infrastructure requires construction which requires public funding which requires politicians wanting to spend money on this stuff which requires motorists to vote them in.

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