[Pants-of-dog]

You have changed the goalposts from "genocide" to "mistreatment" and "oppression". The latter can refer to anything, like land claims/treaty rights or pipelines or racist cop abuse or who knows what. You have not even defined what you refer to so how can I compare that which you can't define, or point to anyone else who has defined it?

Not really. Canada is guilty of genocide and mistreatment and oppression.

When I just asked you to define what you're talking about you ignored the question or tried to deflect by saying "see, you don't even know its happening". But you won't even define it yourself, or point to links. Maybe if there's a human rights organization that can point out what you're talking about that would be helpful. My assumption is that you won't make any specific references to what you claim as ongoing genocide of indigenous people in Canada because your claims are greatly overstated and you can't back them up so you continue to be purposefully vague.

Go ahead and assume I am a dishonest debater who is trying to deceive you. It does not matter. The point is that your own lack of clarity on the issue must stem from somewhere. And that you have this clarity when it comes to the Chinese.

Now, it might be that Canadian news and English language forums are discussing Canadian genocide just as much as Chinese genocide but that readers such as yourself are only focusing on the Chinese stories. This seems doubtful since you are interested in politics and would have read these stories about Canadian human rights problems.

It might then be that news and fora are not discussing Canadian human right abuses as much as Chinese ones, which would give credence to the argument of media bias.

most likely, it is a complex combination of these two factors and more.

If you'll define the current indigenous genocide you claim is still occurring we can continue the discussion. If you continue to refuse I don't see any constructive reason to continue this discussion and will no longer respond.

The definition and how people arrived at the decision that Canada is guilty are easily available online.

Atrocities towards aboriginals have been in the news headlines constantly the last several years, from the TRC to the inquiry on MMIWG to the residential school graves to poor water conditions to the 2020 railway protests over gas pipelines and land rights. Canada now even has a new national "holiday" designed to focus on Truth and Reconciliation with Indigenous peoples. I just don't agree with your argument.

And yet, the average politically astuteCanadian such as yourself is not even aware of the current genocide, how it is defined, and what that means.

If the stories are in the media, why do Canadians still not have a clear understanding?

I never said "oppression of Uyghurs is much higher than Canadian oppression of Indigenous people". I said current state-led genocide of Indigenous in Canada isn't as high as current state-led genocide of Uyghurs.

I had asked why you were so sure that current state-led genocide of Indigenous in Canada isn't as high as current state-led genocide of Uyghurs, and suggested that this is because you are unaware of the evidence against Canada but clear on the evidence against China.

Since you have repeatedly asked for said evidence, I will assume my suggestion was correct.

[Unthinking Majority]

The definition and how people arrived at the decision that Canada is guilty are easily available online.

Then post a link. I'm not going to read your mind or use google in order to guess what you're referring to. Since you've failed to do so repeatedly i'll assume you have no point to make and this discussion is over.

[Unthinking Majority]

Go ahead and assume I am a dishonest debater who is trying to deceive you. It does not matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning

[Pants-of-dog]

And again, if the average Canadian does not even know what is meant by Canadian genocide of Indigenous people, then that are supports the claim that there is a bias in western media on the part of the media source or the consumer or both.

[Steve_American]

UM wrote:

In terms of currently occurring genocide, yes. Why do you think its not true? You keep making claims about current genocide of indigenous being comparable to Uyghur genocide and yet have not provided any evidence or argument about why this is true. Please provide the evidence, otherwise this claim can be rejected.

PoD wrote:

Feel free to reject this claim.

@PoD,
OK, Because you refused to provide even 1 bit of evidence, when you were asked for some, I will assume that you don't have any, and so, the claim can be rejected. Just like I reject the assetion that the 2020 election was stolen by Biden. And, just like I reject the claim that God exists until some good evidence is pointed out.

.

[Pants-of-dog]

UM wrote:

PoD wrote:

@PoD,
OK, Because you refused to provide even 1 bit of evidence, when you were asked for some, I will assume that you don't have any, and so, the claim can be rejected. Just like I reject the assetion that the 2020 election was stolen by Biden. And, just like I reject the claim that God exists until some good evidence is pointed out.

.

Sure.

Note that this was not my argument.

@Unthinking Majority simply placed that argument on me, and then sealioned me by asking me about it over and over agin even after I explained how my argument is about something else.

And again, the fact that people need to ask for evidence proves the point that this issue is relatively unknown compared to the same thing happening in China. No one seems to wants to address that.

[MadMonk]

Sure.

Note that this was not my argument.

@Unthinking Majority simply placed that argument on me, and then sealioned me by asking me about it over and over agin even after I explained how my argument is about something else.

And again, the fact that people need to ask for evidence proves the point that this issue is relatively unknown compared to the same thing happening in China. No one seems to wants to address that.

That is where the wheels come off your argument. The 'same thing' might have happened once, but comparing contemporary state policy in both countries paints an entirely different picture. Is Canada forcibly sterilizing thousands or tens of thousands of cultural and ethnic minorities? Are they detaining hundreds of thousands in reeducation camps?

That is not the picture I get when I search for grievances committed in Canada today, as bad as they are.

Other crucial recommendations on Indigenous Peoples’ rights in today’s Committee report include:

review provincial and territorial legislation and coordinate police responses across the country with a view to preventing the disappearance and murder of Indigenous women and girls;

address concerns about excessive use of force against land rights protesters and other activists by ensuring that such allegations are “promptly and impartially investigated by strong independent oversight bodies” and that officers found responsible are brought to justice;

remove “all remaining discriminatory effects of the Indian Act” affecting First Nations women and which deny their descendants equal access to Indian Status and its benefits ;

ensure that measures intended to address the disproportionate rate of incarceration of Indigenous people are actually effective, enhance alternatives to incarceration, and improve Indigenous peoples’ access to justice;

take measures to address the risk of disappearance of Indigenous languages;
strengthen and reinforce access to basic services; and

ensure sufficient funding to child and family services on reserve.

UN human rights report shows that Canada is failing Indigenous peoples

https://www.ubcic.bc.ca/canadafailingindigenouspeoples

[Rich]

There are certin events that stand out very clearly as genocide.

The Jewish extermination of the Caananites.
Mohammad's extermination of the Jewish tribes.
The Ottoman Muslim genocide of the Armenians and other Christians
The Nazi genocide of the Jews and Gypsies
The Bolshevik Communist genocide of the Kulaks
The Hutsis genocide of the Tutsis
The Cambodian genocide

I may have missed some out. The first two are ancient history and could be left as such if people today didn't still try to describe these acts as great moral virtues. If people didn't still describe the perpetrators as examples of a universal morality. There's nothing wrong with celebrating Ghenghis Khan. There's nothing wrong with celebrating the American Confederacy just as long as you're not trying to bring back slavery (or it would be more precise to say expand slavery) or re-institute Jim Crow.

Perhaps these could be considered 1st degree genocide. Then we could think about other categories such as 2nd / 3rd degree genocide, statutory genocide and genoslaughter.

I'm not saying that the British did any thing wrong in India during the Second World War, but it seems at least reasonable to investigate it for possible genoslaughter. The Liberals are always including everyone else of racism. Its kinda funny really because they never seem to question if the amount of time that has gone into investigating the Bengal famine vs Hillsborough, really does seem disproportionate to me. Dare I say, this could really be considered a sign of institutional racism.

[Potemkin]

There are certin events that stand out very clearly as genocide.

The Jewish extermination of the Caananites.
Mohammad's extermination of the Jewish tribes.
The Ottoman Muslim genocide of the Armenians and other Christians
The Nazi genocide of the Jews and Gypsies
The Bolshevik Communist genocide of the Kulaks
The Hutsis genocide of the Tutsis
The Cambodian genocide

I may have missed some out. The first two are ancient history and could be left as such if people today didn't still try to describe these acts as great moral virtues. If people didn't still describe the perpetrators as examples of a universal morality. There's nothing wrong with celebrating Ghenghis Khan. There's nothing wrong with celebrating the American Confederacy just as long as you're not trying to bring back slavery (or it would be more precise to say expand slavery) or re-institute Jim Crow.

Perhaps these could be considered 1st degree genocide. Then we could think about other categories such as 2nd / 3rd degree genocide, statutory genocide and genoslaughter.

I'm not saying that the British did any thing wrong in India during the Second World War, but it seems at least reasonable to investigate it for possible genoslaughter. The Liberals are always including everyone else of racism. Its kinda funny really because they never seem to question if the amount of time that has gone into investigating the Bengal famine vs Hillsborough, really does seem disproportionate to me. Dare I say, this could really be considered a sign of institutional racism.

The civilisations of the ancient world regularly committed what we would now call ‘genocide’ as a matter of course. They saw nothing wrong with it (so long as it wasn’t being done to them of course). Even into the 19th century, the Ottomans, the British, the French, the Russians and all manner of nations and empires were cheerfully exterminating their enemies without a care in the world. Hell, even the Belgians were getting in on the act. Plucky little Belgium. Lol. After all, who was going to stop them? Or even wag their finger at them? Fucking nobody, that’s who. Because everybody was at it. Attitudes only started to change when those oafish johnny-come-latelies the Germans decided to ape their betters and do a little genociding of their own. Unfortunately, being oafish johnny-come-latelies, they didn’t understand the rules - they started invading and genociding white Europeans. Can you imagine? Treating fellow Europeans as though we were Asians or even Africans. Needless to say, they were blackballed from the Club by the other members. Last I heard, they’ve been trying to form a new Club of their own for like-minded oafs and cads. I think they call it the ‘EU’ or something. Mark my words, nothing good will come of it all….

[Unthinking Majority]

And again, if the average Canadian does not even know what is meant by Canadian genocide of Indigenous people, then that are supports the claim that there is a bias in western media on the part of the media source or the consumer or both.

No, I want to know what YOU mean by genocide happening right now, because you're comparing it to the Uyghurs. By not even explaining what you're talking about you can continue to make a claim that the genocide you're vaguely referring to is as bad as the Uyghur genocide without having to back up that claim. Therefore your argument is being rejected. Your tricks are tired. Have a nice day.

[Unthinking Majority]

And again, the fact that people need to ask for evidence proves the point that this issue is relatively unknown compared to the same thing happening in China. No one seems to wants to address that.

If Donald Trump said that Barack Obama raped 500 children while POTUS and that the need for people asking for evidence of this was just proof that there is media bias against negative Trump stories compared to negative Obama stories, would you or anyone but Trump cult members accept this argument?

So far the only person you have convinced is yourself. My best guess is that you just don't have the receipts to back it up. Cheers.

[Unthinking Majority]

Big-time state-led genocide against indigenous happening in Canada right now:

https://globalnews.ca/news/9627420/five ... overnment/

[Pants-of-dog]

That is where the wheels come off your argument. The 'same thing' might have happened once, but comparing contemporary state policy in both countries paints an entirely different picture. Is Canada forcibly sterilizing thousands or tens of thousands of cultural and ethnic minorities? Are they detaining hundreds of thousands in reeducation camps?

That is not the picture I get when I search for grievances committed in Canada today, as bad as they are.

Exactly. To actually make an honest and fair comparison, we would have to look at the evidence for both sides.

Most people do not seem to be doing that.

[late]

Big-time state-led genocide against indigenous happening in Canada right now:

https://globalnews.ca/news/9627420/five ... overnment/

That's politics, not genocide.

Now if I was Canadian, and was being talked to death...

[Pants-of-dog]

Big-time state-led genocide against indigenous happening in Canada right now:

https://globalnews.ca/news/9627420/five ... overnment/

The fact that the Canadian government is currently being forced to pay for land and resources it has been illegally using for years shows that the problems are ongoing, and that the state is acting with intent to deprive Indigenous communities of land and resources.

Since that is the case, it is appropriate to ask when the genocide supposedly ended in Canada.

[wat0n]

Forced by whom?

[Pants-of-dog]

Forced by whom?

How is this a question asked in good faith?

After all, you can easily read the link and answer for yourself.

[wat0n]

How is this a question asked in good faith?

After all, you can easily read the link and answer for yourself.

Who enforces the treaty?

You make it sound like Canada couldn't just ignore it without consequence like it had been doing since 1899...

[Rancid]

RACISM!

[Pants-of-dog]

So it was not a good faith question.

Anyway:

Multiculturalism policy is a consequence of Canadian financial policy: accessing immigrant labour, especially skilled labour.

It has never included Indigenous people since that would contradict the whole point.

While news and social media have focused on Chinese genocide of Uyghurs, either the same did not happen with Canadian genocide or readers were not as interested, or both.

Canadian mistreatment and oppression of Indigenous people is ongoing.