[Nunt]

From Wiki:

Croatia has blocked access to Liberland in the beginning of May 2015. Vít Jedlička was twice detained for less than a day by Croatian authorities in the same month.

And what happens when you try to enter this lolbertarian utopia?

Croatia has deployed police units to prevent attempts to reach the uninhabited area.

A Bosnian group of journalists from Dnevni Avaz who attempted to visit Liberland were told by Croatian police that Croatia enforces a fine of HRK2,500 for those that enter the zone near the border with a car. They borrowed bicycles from a local, but as they attempted to reach Liberland again, they met another patrol, and they couldn't continue past the border gate.

A few days after his detention, six other people (from the Czech Republic, Ireland, Germany, Denmark, and the USA) were detained and fined. A complaint to the Danish Embassy in Zagreb was made because they allege they were prevented from contacting anyone during the apprehension and detention. Their goal, under the auspices of the Swiss non-profit organization Liberland Settlement Association, was to settle Liberland.

Well, what is happening there is hardly the fault of liberteraniasm. It just shows that established nations are willing to use their police force to a stop a fledgeling nation to be formed. If the nation fails, then this only shows that that a few idealists are no match for the Czech police. This conclusion will not surprise anyone. Imagine 500 years ago some idealists would attempt to build a small democratic nation and they get stomped by the French king. Would that tell you anything about whether or not democracy is a viable idea? Of course not.

It would be a much more interesting experiment if, instead of working against the new nation, the Czechs would actually assist in the startup of liberland. If it still fails (I believe the probability of that to be rather high) then we can learn something about the viability of starting a libertarian nation from scratch.

[Heisenberg]

Well, what is happening there is hardly the fault of liberteraniasm.

The rest of your post demonstrates otherwise. For this to have succeeded, it would actively depend on the goodwill of the Croatian government, and them promising not to prevent it. Since libertarians don't believe in "aggression", there's nothing they can do about it when Croatia says "lol, no".

Imagine 500 years ago some idealists would attempt to build a small democratic nation and they get stomped by the French king. Would that tell you anything about whether or not democracy is a viable idea? Of course not.

No. However, the fact that the French Revolution happened and France established a republican system of government by force proved that it was a viable idea. If libertarians are too "principled" to use force to establish their ideas, they will fail, and deservedly so.

[Nunt]

The rest of your post demonstrates otherwise. For this to have succeeded, it would actively depend on the goodwill of the Croatian government, and them promising not to prevent it. Since libertarians don't believe in "aggression", there's nothing they can do about it when Croatia says "lol, no".

No. However, the fact that the French Revolution happened and France established a republican system of government by force proved that it was a viable idea. If libertarians are too "principled" to use force to establish their ideas, they will fail, and deservedly so.

You confuse pacifism with libertarianism.

[Heisenberg]

Not really. The "non-aggression principle" prevents libertarians from initiating force. If they aren't prepared to initiate force to carve out their own nation (which is what they would have to do), then they will fail - as the pathetic little saga of "Liberland" has shown.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

It would be a much more interesting experiment if, instead of working against the new nation, the Czechs would actually assist in the startup of liberland. If it still fails (I believe the probability of that to be rather high) then we can learn something about the viability of starting a libertarian nation from scratch.

Completely unnecessary. Just look at Caribbean islands which depend on tourism and a status as tax havens. This is what Liberland and any other lolbertarian attempt at a "micronation" would be founded upon.

[Nunt]

Not really. The "non-aggression principle" prevents libertarians from initiating force. If they aren't prepared to initiate force to carve out their own nation (which is what they would have to do), then they will fail - as the pathetic little saga of "Liberland" has shown.

You don't need to initiate force to start a nation.

According to the NAP you are free to start a nation with consenting individuals. You are undertaking a peaceful project. If someone tries to stop you, and uses agression, then you are free to use the force needed to realize your peaceful project. You confuse initiating force with self defence. Any force that would be required to start a nation would always be in response to someone else, pure agression is not required.

The reason the Liberland idealists are not using force in self defence is because they are 20 unarmed men against the whole czech police force. They surrender not because the NAP prevents them to fight, but because fighting the police is futile.

Completely unnecessary. Just look at Caribbean islands which depend on tourism and a status as tax havens. This is what Liberland and any other lolbertarian attempt at a "micronation" would be founded upon.

I don't know much about Caribbean island, but I'm pretty sure their goal wasn't to establish a society based on respect for the NAP.

[Conscript]

Well, what is happening there is hardly the fault of liberteraniasm. It just shows that established nations are willing to use their police force to a stop a fledgeling nation to be formed. If the nation fails, then this only shows that that a few idealists are no match for the Czech police. This conclusion will not surprise anyone. Imagine 500 years ago some idealists would attempt to build a small democratic nation and they get stomped by the French king. Would that tell you anything about whether or not democracy is a viable idea? Of course not.

Man, I wish we applied this logic to socialism.

[Nunt]

Man, I wish we applied this logic to socialism.

I do. In fact, people have formed rather succesful, small scale socialist communes. And I applaud them for it. If they want to live in an previously unoccupied plot of land and form a community that reflects their ideals, then I am all for it. It doesn't matter whether their ideals are socialist or libertarian, I wish them the best of luck in realizing their dream. But this is not how socialism was established at the country level. It was established by the government appropriating the existing means of production and centrally planning the economy. Socialism in these countries didn't fail because they were a few idealists starting from scratch in the wilderness, it failed because of the inherent problems with central planning.