[Joe Liberty]

A skilled tutor is not considered homeschooling.

Since when? If the kid isn't in the "public" school system or attending a private school, he's homeschooled. There are homeschool co-ops as well. Again, it seems like your definition of homeschooling is quite narrow and stereotypical.

You'd be correct in that assumption, but not everyone can teach WELL, and with no education in teaching. I'd like it if there was a school for parents who want to home-school, though.

There are resources all over teh interwebs. There are entire companies that cater to homeschooling parents with tons of resources.

In fact it's always seemed to me to be yet another indictment of the "public" school system, to say that the products of said system didn't learn enough to pass that knowledge along to their children.

You seem to assume that homeschooled kids are locked in closets until they're 18.

Fact. They are not having constant social contact with other people their age.

That's not a fact, that's your prejudice. How do you know what friends they have? So not only are they locked in closets, but they have no cousins, no friends in their neighborhood or their church? Come on. What do "public" school students do through the summer, just sit around by themselves? They interact with children outside the school too, you know.

The child being home-schooled is not getting independent social experience that the one being taught in a public/private school is getting. The parent controls the entire environment. That is not, in my opinion, conducive to independence.

Your opinion is flawed because you assume that the children have zero interaction with the outside world. You also contradict yourself when you presume and lament the fact that they don't have contact with children their own chronological age (which is an arbirtary criteria, since chronological age doesn't necessarily indicate maturity level or anything else), but you also say they don't get independent social experiences. Make up your mind, should they be independent or part of a herd?

I did not say "nothing else limits a kid's choices", either, so you're addressing a point that I never made. I said, "It limits your child's education because they might not be able to get in the school you want them to(college/Univ.)."

My point is that there are many obstacles to continuing one's education beyond high school. There is nothing unique about homeschooled kids in that regard.

Your posts are rife with assumptions and stereotypes about homeschooled kids and parents. I have no doubt that some fit those stereotypes, but despite what politicians and teachers' unions tell you, they are not indicative of the entire movement.

[Rothbardian]

That blog you linked to really doesn't give information as to what the sources for the information are.

I don't really want to purchase a book, so can you link to some internet location and not to a book where I cannot verify your sources? I'm not trolling, but merely trying to examine the information you make claims to.

There was a study done in the early 2000's that determined functional illiteracy was at about 50%, but the link doesn't work anymore. That book is a good read if you ever get the chance.

I was able to find this on the overall 'quality' of education:

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/are_am ... ng_dumber/

A survey by ACT college testing service found “only 51 percent of students showed they were ready to handle the reading requirements of a typical first-year college course.”
Some students thought “the right to drive and the right to have pets” are listed in the Constitution.
Another survey showed that “more than 50 percent of students at four-year schools and more than 75 percent at two-year colleges lacked the skills to perform complex literacy tasks.” The results, the study found, “cut across three types of literacy: analyzing news stories and other prose, understanding documents and having math skills needed for checkbooks or restaurant tips.”
AP reported that “almost 20 percent of students pursuing four-year [college] degrees had only basic quantitative skills. For example, the students could not estimate if their car had enough gas to get to the service station.”
“Most Chicago Public Schools alumni must take remedial classes at the Chicago City Colleges; 74 percent must take remedial English; 94 percent must take remedial math.”

And this:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wir ... ing-dumber

According
to the National Research Council report, only 28% of high school science
teachers consistently follow the National Research Council guidelines on
teaching evolution, and 13% of those teachers explicitly advocate
creationism or "intelligent design."

On
the eve of the Iraq War, 69% of American's thought Saddam Hussein was
involved in the 9/11 attacks; four years later, even though proof had been
provided that he was not, 34% still believe he was.

Researcher
Kyung Hee Kim at the College of William & Mary analyzed 300,00
Torrance Creativity Test scores of children and adults in
the US. Kim found creativity and IQ scores rose steadily until 1990, and
were in decline thereafter, and the most serious decline occurring for the
youngest children.

In
1966-67, approximately 1.4 million students who took the verbal portion of
the S.A.T and a score of 700 or more was achieved by 33,000 students. In
1986-87 over 1.8 million students took the test and a score of 700 or
higher was attained by fewer than 14,000.


Of the 21 countries
participating in the Third International Mathematics and Science Study,
American high school seniors did better than only 2 countries--Cyprus and South
Africa.

According to the National
Endowment for the Arts report in 1982, 82% of college graduates read novels or
poems for pleasure; two decades later only 67% did. And more than 40% of
Americans under 44 did not read a single book--fiction or nonfiction--over the
course of a year. The proportion of 17 year olds who read nothing (unless
required by school ) has doubled between 1984-2004.

Harvard University's Kiku
Adatto found that between 1968 and 1988 the average sound bite on the news for
a presidential candidates-featuring the candidate's own voice-dropped from 42.3
seconds to 9.8 seconds. By 2000, according to another Harvard study, the bite
was down to 7.8 seconds.

I wouldn't be willing to pay anyone to teach my child to read. That's my job. And his mums job. And her mums job. And my mums job.
Writing? Meh, happy to pass the buck.

I've worked in one or two sink schools. Didn't hear of any illiterates.
Is there some standard of illiteracy then?
I had run ins with kids getting chucked out of sink schools. I had run ins with their parents too.
I've met the roughest of the rough and I have to say the government was being extraordinarily nice to them. But the child was screwed. Never had a chance from day one. He is his fathers son. Biffer Bacon from the Biffer Bacon family. Dad looked like Rab C Nesbitt. Son probably does by now too.

Or Straight A Student really nice bloke and teachers pet becomes a dad at 15 and it's all over. Nothing the school can do about it. Come exam times he's going to be up all night feeding baby and then off to work at 16. Bless him.
It's not the state that makes the poor poor. It's themselves.



Is my not wanting to read a book implicit of my incapability to do so?

P.S. Television makes you smart.

I didn't say anything about your child. I'm referring to these children. They have parents who either can't/won't teach them, or trust in the state to do so. Is this level of failure worth $15,000 a year to you? Personally, I don't see the point in paying for institutionalized stupidity at any price.

[Baff]

I don't think I've fully grasped your question So this reponse may flounder a little.

I don't want to pay $15,000 for failure. So whatever it is you are refering to me, if you can convince me it has failed, I'm not going to be up for it.

I prefer independant schools to government schools becasue they don't have to bother with political corrects. I prefer an independant mind. (Or at least what I perceive to be a more independant mind).

I object to schools being used for the purposes of political indoctrination massively. Any attempts to do so will be physically repelled from my class and likely the school grounds.
Even if that conditioning matches my own sentiments.


In general, other peoples children are not worth $15,000 to me.
A small handful of them are.

[Rothbardian]

Yeah, I think most people that way. It's like asking people if they'd pay thousands of dollars for a nice dinner knowing they'd be getting a big mac and fries. But that is what the statists say we should do.

[Husky]

[mum]

Ive been looking into Montessori schooling in relation to private schools and homeschooling. It looks like a great idea.
Competency based group learning with a mix of ages. Also a strong emphasis on self directed learning.

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montessori_education&sa=U&ei=OZWGUo7GEOnniAfjyIDQAg&ved=0CAsQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGP3Y5OqWXddyY3-D5VgyrLalquWQ

[Ummon]

I think a large proportion of libertarians, and myself included, do not object to public schooling, per se, but the centralization of such schooling. Why not devolve the authority for public schooling as local as possible?

Because then you get people teaching that evolution never happened in the south

[Joe Liberty]

Because then you get people teaching that evolution never happened in the south

...and you get people in the big cities teaching that government is the first, best, and only solution to every problem. So what? What someone believes about evolution is almost completely irrelevant to anything anyway. Last I checked it's not on SAT tests and it's not listed on resumes, so who cares? I think part of SS's point is that people outside of Alabama, for instance, have no right to determine what kids learn in Alabama.

Do you still believe everything that you were taught in school? I don't know how long you've been out, but I can tell you that they didn't get everything right, but if you have the ability to read, then anything that you've been taught "in error" can be corrected. You don't stop learning after high school graduation.

[mum]

+1
and due to the multiple failings of public school, most kids don't learn what they should anyway.
Public school is failing our youth, and it only seems to be getting worse

[Voluntarism]

Ive been looking into Montessori schooling in relation to private schools and homeschooling. It looks like a great idea.
Competency based group learning with a mix of ages. Also a strong emphasis on self directed learning.

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montessori_education&sa=U&ei=OZWGUo7GEOnniAfjyIDQAg&ved=0CAsQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGP3Y5OqWXddyY3-D5VgyrLalquWQ

Montessori principles are very good IMO. We implemented a lot in our home environment from ~12months (when we first started learning about it all) and I reckon they benefitted our daughter a lot. Unfortunately - as with all schooling - the moderator/teacher plays an important role. Her 2nd one was a very bad fit for our daughter's personality and ability and when we finally made the choice to move back into the mainstream schooling system rather than making her endure another 15 months before moving to the next age group she was much, much happier.

[mum]

Interesting, thanks for your post