[Katmando]

I am hoping to get a libertarians view on which party the republican or democrats cause big government. What areas/issues cause bigger government?


Thank you <><

[nach0king]

Irresponsibility and disagreement with libertarian ideals causes big government in the US, basically.

I used to buy into the GOP's rhetoric that they were all about the little guy, all for reducing government interference... well, that hasn't worked out too well. They may curtail economically (in places, whilst spending erratically and increasing national debt) but much legislation has been introduced that causes the "social" aspects of government to grow. The Democrats may well cause both to grow, but despite the GOP's protestations, it does virtually nothing to alleviate the problem and is only paying lip-service to people who sympathise with libertarian aspects of conservatism.

[Todd D.]

Both.

Democrats want to increase federal spening on social and transfer programs, increase regulation on education, gun control, etc. All this causes an increase in taxes and bigger government.

Republicans want to increase federal spending on the military and increased regulation over social issues such as pornography, gay marraige, drugs, etc. They in general lower taxes, but cause large defecits that while in the short term would not be a big deal, generally lead to long term debt. Thus bigger government.

[Katmando]

Republicans want to increase federal spending on the military and increased regulation over social issues such as pornography, gay marraige, drugs, etc. They in general lower taxes, but cause large defecits that while in the short term would not be a big deal, generally lead to long term debt. Thus bigger government.

I do not see a big problem with fedral spending on the military (To an extent). I read the debate on this issue in the debate forum and I just do not see how this could work. But spending money on regulating social issues like pornography and gay marriage make no since to me. I am not completely sold on the Libertarians view on drugs but I do think there is to much regulation. It seems to me, some feel that is the governments job to know what is right and wrong and to me that is plain absurd.

<><

[nach0king]

I believe the party stance is that *defence* spending is fine if it actually IS defence. Individuals of course differ in how far that can be taken.

[smashthestate]

If we analyze the past half-century, the Republicans have been responsible for almost every endeavor to grow the size and scope of the state apparatus. They may not have increased taxes as much as the Democrats, but they've allowed the government to become more involved in people's personal and private lives far more than the Democrats ever have. The Republicans have grown the size of the government far more than the Democrats have, at least in the last 50 years.

[Katmando]

If we analyze the past half-century, the Republicans have been responsible for almost every endeavor to grow the size and scope of the state apparatus. They may not have increased taxes as much as the Democrats, but they've allowed the government to become more involved in people's personal and private lives far more than the Democrats ever have. The Republicans have grown the size of the government far more than the Democrats have, at least in the last 50 years.

Hello smashthestate,

could you state some examples?


Thank you <><

[smashthestate]

Contrary to popular myth, every Republican president since and including Herbert Hoover has increased the federal government's size, scope, or power--and usually all three. Over the last one hundred years, of the five presidents who presided over the largest domestic spending increases, four were Republicans. Include regulations and foreign policy, as well as budgets approved by a Republican Congress, and a picture begins to emerge of the Republican Party as a reliable engine of government growth.

Herbert Hoover 1929-1933

+ Increased federal spending 38 percent (current dollars)
+ Passed the Agricultural Marketing Act (welfare for farmers)
+ Passed the Hawley-Smoot Tariff
+ Waged war on drugs (alcohol)
+ Passed the Reconstruction Finance Corporation (pork and corporate welfare)
+ Passed massive tax increases

Dwight Eisenhower 1953-1961

+ Increased federal spending 30 percent
+ Created Department of Health, Education, & Welfare (and spending)
+ Put Earl Warren and William Brennan on Supreme Court
+ Helped install Shah Pahlevi in Iran (smart, real smart)
+ Extended Social Security to 10 million additional persons
+ Started American involvement in Vietnam
+ Passed federal highway legislation
+ Created NASA
+ Started student loan program (aka, program to raise college tuition so no one can afford it)
+ Kept federal counterfeiting to a minimum, causing you to lose only 9 cents off your 1952 dollar (Source: The Inflation Calculator)

Richard Nixon 1969-1974

+ Increased federal spending 70 percent
+ Created EPA, OSHA, and CPSC
+ Started "affirmative action"
+ Imposed price and wage controls
+ Made your 1968 dollar worth just 78 cents by the time he left office
+ Proposed minimum national income

Gerald Ford 1974-1977

+ Knocked 8 cents off your dollar in just two years [He didn't WIN (Whip Inflation Now]
+ Increased federal spending throughout term
+ Reduced spending on federal prisons by pardoning Nixon
+ Overall, not too bad for a Republican and better than...

Ronald Reagan 1981-1989

+ Increased federal spending 53 percent
+ Elevated Veteran's Administration
+ Added 250,000 civilian (government) employees
+ Created drug czar's office
+ Escalated war on drugs
+ "Saved" Social Security by increasing payroll tax
+ Lowered the value of your 1980 dollar to 73 cents

George Herbert Walker Bush 1989-1993

+ Increased federal spending 12 percent
+ Signed the (litigious) Americans with Disabilities Act
+ Managed to knock 13 cents off the value of your dollar in just four years
+ Just said "Yes" to new taxes

Republican Congress

+ Held your dollar's loss in value to a mere 11 cents [Newt and the (1995-2000) gang]
+ Increased federal spending and taxes collected each year
+ Eviscerated ancient right of Englishmen and Americans--habeas corpus
+ Flunked the acid test of economic sanity--raising the minimum wage (mandatory unemployment law)
+ Passed Freedom to Farm Act (at taxpayers' expense, that is)

SOURCE: http://www.mises.org/fullstory.aspx?con ... government

[Noumenon]

And don't forget that George W. has increased federal spending by 28% since he entered office.

[smashthestate]

And don't forget that George W. has increased federal spending by 28% since he entered office.

And let's not forget about The Patriot Act, and The Department Homeland Security.

[Todd D.]

So I guess it comes down to which would you rather have: the bastard that flat out tells you he's gonna increase the size of government, or the bastard that tells you that he's gonna shrink the size of government, but then makes it bigger?

[nach0king]

That's the exact same conclusion that I came up with when I thought about it. Of course, I decided I'd have nothing to do with the lesser of two evils.

[Garibaldi]

If you can't support absolute good(whihc you can, vote Badnarik), then the best choice is the lesser of two evils.

[Simple Simon]

I admire smashthestate's anti-statism but unfortunately (for him) capitalism needs the state to survive.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

I admire smashthestate's anti-statism but unfortunately (for him) capitalism needs the state to survive.

He's not an anarcho-capitalist, just a radical minarchist.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Both.

Democrats want to increase federal spening on social and transfer programs, increase regulation on education, gun control, etc. All this causes an increase in taxes and bigger government.

Republicans want to increase federal spending on the military and increased regulation over social issues such as pornography, gay marraige, drugs, etc. They in general lower taxes, but cause large defecits that while in the short term would not be a big deal, generally lead to long term debt. Thus bigger government.

I couldn't agree more. Both parties lead to powerful goverment control, just in differant ways.

This is why on some political compasses the far left have a red star and the far right has a swastika..