[Rich]

Anyway there's been nothing careless about the actions of our Zionist masters. You've got to understand how they operate. So for example they were perfectly happy while most of the rest of the world backed Saddam in the Iran-Iraq war while they backed Iran. Who do they support in Syria: No one and every one. With Saddam gone Iran is their primary enemy because that is the most sizeable, military, demographic, organised, coherent entity. Iraq is also a potential threat because it democratic. It has legitimacy. So take particular note of the way that piece of Zionist lowlife John Kerry continually seeks to undermine the legitimacy of the Iraqi government. He continually seeks to get Sunni Muslim terrorists inside the Iraqi government. His whole goal is to undermine the Iraqi government.

You see its not enough for the Zionists to have compliant clients. No they need enemies. This is why they supported Hamas. This is why they seek to facilitate the growth of Al Qaeda. Israel is rightly terrified of three things in the Middle East: Peace, democracy and legitimacy. While the Zionists pull the strings there will never be peace, democracy or legitimacy in the Middle East for anyone but the chosen people.

[abu_rashid]

Al-Shuhadaa.

I dunno about the other one, but this one was certainly not burnt, IS use the building as a government building now.

Since May 2013 the ISIS has been increasing its control over the city, at the expense of the Free Syrian Army and the Al-Nusra Front. The ISIS has executed Alawites and suspected supporters of Bashar al-Assad in the city and attacked the city's Shia mosques and Christian churches[7] such the Armenian Catholic Church of the Martyrs, which has since been converted into an ISIS headquarters.

(Source)

Why do you think they "chose to flee"?

Because they listen to propaganda.

They marked the moment by publically executing three men they said were Alawites, members of the same heterodox Shia sect as President Bashar al-Assad.[/i]

So there was 3 alawis in ar-Raqqah?

Charming people.

War is a nasty business. I don't see you crying a whole lot over the 100,000+ Assad has executed, and all those he's tortured, including little children. The world has stood by and watched and facilitated the Zionists to murder 1800+ Palestinians in the past few weeks... where's the bleeding hearts? Sorry, but whilst your moral outrage is so selectively applied, it's going to elicit nothing more than a sarcastic chuckle from me.

It doesn't exactly scream "civilised beacon of tranquility" though, does it?

It does, because since they liquidated the Ba'athist snipers, the city has been pretty peaceful.

Mainly because women are something like six times more likely to be stoned for adultery than men. Of course, stoning men is equally contemptible.

Where did you get these figures from?

Since you claim to be unaware of their well-documented barbarism, I'd suggest you haven't been "taking your news" from anywhere.

I'm not unaware of it, I just don't think it's any different to the 'barbarism' of most other states. After all didn't the anniversary just pass of the US nuking of Japan? Hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians instantly incinerated, many more left to die of horrible radiation poisoning. And that's nothing compared to those firebombed to death in the conventional bombing of other Japanese cities.

IS would need to continue doing what they've been doing for probably a century straight to match the barbarism of a country like the US.

Yes, you keep saying this. It is patently obvious where your sympathies lie. Have the courage to admit it.

Have you watched 1 single documentary from inside the Islamic State?

[Heisenberg]

I dunno about the other one, but this one was certainly not burnt, IS use the building as a government building now.

Oh, of course. But only after destroying everything inside it. I also love that you are overlooking the fact that they have commandeered another religious group's place of worship and driven out its worshippers, as though this is all fine and dandy.

Because they listen to propaganda.

Or - far more likely - because they know what it is like to live under these animals. "Forced conversion or death" isn't much of a choice, after all.

So there was 3 alawis in ar-Raqqah?

You asked for evidence that they killed Alawites for being Alawites. I provide it to you, and you respond with "only three?" What the hell is wrong with you?

War is a nasty business. I don't see you crying a whole lot over the 100,000+ Assad has executed, and all those he's tortured, including little children.

This is known as "whataboutery". The topic of discussion is not the "100,000+ Assad has executed" (which, by the way, is not true). The topic of discussion is the Islamist virus that is infecting Raqqah, and which you are defending as being a peaceful haven of happiness and laughter.

Where did you get these figures from?

I don't have figures to hand, but I'm pretty sure this is widely acknowledged. Play dumb all you like, but again, you aren't fooling anyone.

I'm not unaware of it, I just don't think it's any different to the 'barbarism' of most other states. After all didn't the anniversary just pass of the US nuking of Japan? Hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians instantly incinerated, many more left to die of horrible radiation poisoning. And that's nothing compared to those firebombed to death in the conventional bombing of other Japanese cities.

IS would need to continue doing what they've been doing for probably a century straight to match the barbarism of a country like the US.

More whataboutery, and more bollocks. Just because IS lacks the means to cleanse the world of all the infidels, it does not excuse their appalling behaviour wherever they have gained a foothold.

And no, I have not watched a "documentary from inside the Islamic State". I have seen their propaganda videos though, if that is what you're referring to.

[Ideational Ontarian]

Interesting how we always hear about "women being stoned for adultery". Why never the men? Not as much propaganda value in that is there? Adultery is indeed a crime, a most heinous one at that.

Probably because Islam encourages a patriarchal society where women are often treated like chattel. It's incredible to me that you view adultery as a "heinous" crime. It may be morally wrong but it is an act between consenting adults. You seem to be implicitly condoning extreme punishments for this "crime".

[Heisenberg]

But he isn't condoning them, IO. He's just an impartial observer of this curious phenomenon.

[Rei Murasame]

I wonder if Abu Rashid would like to tell us what the punishment for 'fornication' is, under ISIL? Given that PoFo contains near 100% fornicators, it should be interesting to see how much Islamists can alienate the average person.

[Rich]

We are truly blessed to have Abu on the forum. He is clearly one of the "overwhelming majority of moderate Muslims" who just seem to keep accidentally end up under the rule of an insignificant extremist minority who have nothing to do with Islam. With such vigorous opposition to extremism form the safety of his computer terminal one can only imagine the heroic struggles of resistance that must be going on at this very moment by "the overwhelming majority of moderate Muslims" under ISIS domination.

[Rei Murasame]

Exactly! I keep pointing out how the majority seems to accept ISIL and no one wants to believe it, but Abu Rashid is an example of this. If ISIL showed up in his neighbourhood and all other social institutions were dissolved into Caliphate, Abu Rashid wouldn't be like, "Oh no, ISIL is upon us, moderate Muslims must rise against them!"

Instead, the 'moderates' would simply adapt to the situation because they don't fundamentally disagree on anything.

[Far-Right Sage]

The Islamophobia in this discussion is rampant.

[Brother of Karl]

Moderator note: All off topic posts split to an invisible forum. Please remember that this is an on topic forum and this topic has nothing to do with how the Islamists treat the mentally handicapped. One line post that added nothing to the discussion also deleted.

Forum Rules: http://www.politicsforum.org/documents/about/forum-rules/

[abu_rashid]

Heisenberg,

Oh, of course. But only after destroying everything inside it. I also love that you are overlooking the fact that they have commandeered another religious group's place of worship and driven out its worshippers, as though this is all fine and dandy.

If the Christians have all fled the city, no need for them to use a Church i guess. Someone might as well put it to good use. Quite utilitarian if you ask me.

I don't see the world giving a damn when hundreds of mosques are completely levelled in Gaza. Call it whataboutery if you like, but I call ignoring it hypocrisy.

Or - far more likely - because they know what it is like to live under these animals. "Forced conversion or death" isn't much of a choice, after all.

"Forced conversion or death" is a fabrication. They are offered to live under the Islamic state as Muslims, if they reject they can live under it as protected peoples, if they reject, then obviously they are declaring war against it. There's no forced conversion or death. In fact the only religions I know which have ever had such a policy are Judaism & Christianity, often towards Muslims.

You asked for evidence that they killed Alawites for being Alawites. I provide it to you, and you respond with "only three?" What the hell is wrong with you?

And you still haven't provided that.

This is known as "whataboutery". The topic of discussion is not the "100,000+ Assad has executed" (which, by the way, is not true). The topic of discussion is the Islamist virus that is infecting Raqqah, and which you are defending as being a peaceful haven of happiness and laughter.

But it's very relevant. If you want to discuss the attitude of IS towards Syrian troops and other government supporters, then their treatment of Muslims is extremely relevant.

I don't have figures to hand, but I'm pretty sure this is widely acknowledged. Play dumb all you like, but again, you aren't fooling anyone.

I think I'll wait for the figures, rather than your reassurance.

More whataboutery, and more bollocks. Just because IS lacks the means to cleanse the world of all the infidels, it does not excuse their appalling behaviour wherever they have gained a foothold.

It's called 'perspective'.

And no, I have not watched a "documentary from inside the Islamic State". I have seen their propaganda videos though, if that is what you're referring to.

Vice News have released 2 parts of their 5 part documentary of life inside the Islamic state, if you're actually interested in seeing both sides.

But he isn't condoning them, IO. He's just an impartial observer of this curious phenomenon.

As a Muslim of course I believe adultery is a capital offence.

Rei Murasame,

I wonder if Abu Rashid would like to tell us what the punishment for 'fornication' is, under ISIL? Given that PoFo contains near 100% fornicators, it should be interesting to see how much Islamists can alienate the average person.

I don't know what it is under IS, but I assume it's what it is under Islam, whipping.

If these people lived under IS though, they wouldn't be committing this crime, they'd probably be getting married. Do you honestly think pulling actions out of one context and trying to shove them theoretically into another really makes the point you think it does?

[Rei Murasame]

As it turns out, I didn't have to actually bother, as your response was more than I could have imagined that you would say. I have no further questions at this time.

[Ideational Ontarian]

As it turns out, I didn't have to actually bother, as your response was more than I could have imagined that you would say. I have no further questions at this time.

I will go as far as to say, I see nothing wrong with severe suppression of people like this. It actually makes my fucking skin crawl that people like this live amongst us.

abu_rashid is a prime example of what happens when you allow unlimited numbers of backward Muslims into your country. They actually start to infect perfectly good citizens with barbaric ideologies. The next step for abu_rashid is for him to get sick of seeing Rei kiss another female in public or me grab my girl's ass without being able to whip us or stone us to death. At that point he will simply get on a plane, fly to Iraq, and start doing those things to innocent Iraqis or Kurds.

[abu_rashid]

abu_rashid is a prime example of what happens when you allow unlimited numbers of backward Muslims into your country. They actually start to infect perfectly good citizens with barbaric ideologies.

I discovered Islam through my own reading and enquiries, not through any contact with immigrant Muslim populations, so there goes that theory.

The next step for abu_rashid is for him to get sick of seeing Rei kiss another female in public or me grab my girl's ass without being able to whip us or stone us to death. At that point he will simply get on a plane, fly to Iraq, and start doing those things to innocent Iraqis or Kurds.

As I have absolutely no urge to whip or stone anyone, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Let me ask you, because the US judicial system uses drugs to effect capital punishment, do you also suffer the delusion that every US citizen secretly wants to inject people with deadly cocktails of poisonous substances?

[Rei Murasame]

abu_rashid is a prime example of what happens when you allow unlimited numbers of backward Muslims into your country.

It is a civilisational threat to be sure. But it is a threat that already actually exists. You mentioned the girls kissing girls thing, in the UK it's found that Muslims comprise only 2% of the population, but they commit 25% of the homophobic crimes.

Of course, they will argue that this is 'not supposed to happen' because 'vigilantism is bad', but it is still happening.

[Godstud]

As a Muslim of course I believe adultery is a capital offence.

Why? The death of a person for this "crime" is far more damaging to any family than infidelity. I think it's absolutely insane to view it like this. Being Muslim, however, does explain why you'd view this in such an extreme manner. You must be a fundamentalist.

Islam is a plague upon the world. The extremists of Islam are not being held in check by the moderates, so they are destroying cultures, and civilization, wherever they touch. It's not Islamaphobia, it's fact.

[Red_Army]

I'm just going to throw my support behind killing all these savages. Abu you realize that members of every ideology have committed barbarism and that some of the people you're arguing with are cheerleaders of genocide. The reason that the overwhelming majority of posters want to see IS destroyed is that their endgame of Islamic radicalism is nauseating theoretically, and terrifying put into practice. The whole ends justifying the means argument doesn't even come into play.

[Drlee]

Any person who advocates the death of someone for adultery and then advocates this process be enforced by a government is a dangerous fool. We do not need them in this world. Their beliefs should be suppressed, their actions to influence government opposed and their presence in civilized areas of the world extremely limited.

I am beginning to believe that moderate Islam is as much a fantasy as the moderate German during the Third Reich. There may be some but they are ineffectual, ineffective and invisible. Take your pick.

It may be that the only time GWB was right was when he asserted that we need to hunt down terrorists AND those who support them. If one is not directly and actively opposed to terrorists they are supporting them in my view. There is no place in a civilized world for someone claiming to be civilized, maintaining that adultery is a capital offense, homosexuality is a capital offense, and that women should be beaten for immodesty. All of those views are decidedly uncivilized.

[abu_rashid]

You don't see it as a crime because you are slaves to your own base desires. As you wish to commit this crime, you also seek to legitimise and normalise it.

Adultery is a scourge to society that has caused untold suffering and societal breakdown, amongst societies that normalise it.

Anyway the idea that I seek to stone adulterers within Western society is just ludicrous. Islam does not condone vigilantism, nor does it condone the unjust implementation of a punishment within a society that promotes things like this. The laws regarding adultery are for a society where modesty is respected, where pornography for instance is not flashed all over the place and where people do not submit to all manner of personal desires.

Islamic law may only be implemented within a Caliphate.

[Godstud]

You don't see it as a crime because you are slaves to your own base desires.

Less so than you are a slave to the whims of a cruel, murderous, oppressive, archaic religion.

Adultery is a scourge to society that has caused untold suffering and societal breakdown, amongst societies that normalise it.

What society has normalized it, Abu? It's a sin for Christians to do it, it's grounds for divorce in most societies, and it's frowned on in all societies. You are grasping at straws.

Islam does not condone vigilantism, nor does it condone the unjust implementation of a punishment within a society that promotes things like this.

Islam promotes violence. Pure and simple. Murdering an adulterer causes more violence and harm than the infidelity of said person.

The laws regarding adultery are for a society where modesty is respected, where pornography for instance is not flashed all over the place and where people do not submit to all manner of personal desires.

The Muslim laws regarding adultery belong with the Inquisition: In the past. Pornography is NOT flashed all over the place. Where do you come up with this bullshit?

Islamic law may only be implemented within a Caliphate.

Bullshit. What do you think Sharia law is? Sharia law is in several countries and they are a nasty set of laws, made by people who don't even know what justice means.