[late]

The first two good studies of climate change were both secret. Back in the 1970s, you needed a top level team with a big budget. The computers back then, even the big ones, were pathetically weak by today's standards.

The earliest science that found warming, that was available to the public, was in the 1980s. Because computers were so weak, and programming a simulation was so nightmarish, and the budget for climate scientists was so tiny... the 'firepower' they could bring to bear on the problems they faced was extremely limited.

The remarkable thing was that they were able to find the warming, findings that stood the test of time, with what little they had to work with.

Now we have super sophisticated climate satellites in Space, and drill miles down into the Antarctic ice, and supercomputers, and more.

But, back then, they got the job done in an extremely difficult situation.

There are much better reasons to be disgusted by Climate Deniers, even the ones that acknowledge climate change, but claim we are helpless.

But as anyone that had to work with that old crap, I have a lot of respect for those guys.

[libertasbella]

There are much better reasons to be disgusted by Climate Deniers, even the ones that acknowledge climate change, but claim we are helpless.

I'm in an awkward position here. Although I agree the climate is changing, I don't trust the powers that be to remedy such a problem. The solutions offered always seem to involve making me poorer, less mobile, and subject to more laws whereas the elite will just pay extra for grass-fed beef without batting an eye before boarding their private jets to the Caymans. I wouldn't trust a climate plan that doesn't place the same limitations on the people making the plan.

[late]

I'm in an awkward position here. Although I agree the climate is changing, I don't trust the powers that be to remedy such a problem. The solutions offered always seem to involve making me poorer, less mobile, and subject to more laws whereas the elite will just pay extra for grass-fed beef without batting an eye before boarding their private jets to the Caymans. I wouldn't trust a climate plan that doesn't place the same limitations on the people making the plan.

The charm of a Carbon Tax is that the government doesn't mandate how we live. It lets the genius of the market handle most of the problem.

The only people supporting this strongly are Progressives, and we support strong social programs. If you look at Europe, a lot of it has had high gas taxes since the 1970s, but the way they've handled things has made it so that people in countries with wealth comparable to us live lives that are better than us.

Give you one example, while we let banks screw college kids over, in Denmark college is free, you even get some money from the govt while you study.

That's better, a lot better.

[Steve_American]

I'm in an awkward position here. Although I agree the climate is changing, I don't trust the powers that be to remedy such a problem. The solutions offered always seem to involve making me poorer, less mobile, and subject to more laws whereas the elite will just pay extra for grass-fed beef without batting an eye before boarding their private jets to the Caymans. I wouldn't trust a climate plan that doesn't place the same limitations on the people making the plan.

I agree with the idea that even the super rich should have their life style reduced just as much as the working poor. By that I mean proportionally. If my life style is cut in half the supr rich should have theirs cut in half too.

This why I suggested rationing.

With rationing, money will no longer be the only think that decides how we live.

I know that I'm alone in this. I believe that nobody has yet faced the true reality that drastic cut must be made. IMHO, we can't cut it too much. If we error on the 'not enough' side then we are totally screwed because we are only getting one chance the get this right. OTOH, if we error on the 'too much' side, all that has happened is that we gave up some luxuries for a few to several years. Nobody should see cuts that kill them.

And, I still know that I am all alone in this. I am Casandra, and nobody has believed me for the last 50 years. [This is an exaggeration, in that I can see posts on line that agree with me (except the rationing thing), I have never met one in person though. So, it feels like being alone.]