[imagicnation]

Do you believe it would have been possible, and also, where did Germany/Nazis/Hitler go wrong? I've always been of the opinion that Hitler was the reason Germany could have won the war, and Hitler was the reason Germany lost the war.
Was it the Russians who stopped Germany so completely?
Was the need for oil the biggest blow to German plans?

[alyster]

Economically Germans were out numbered practically in everything. Hitler was informed that Germany has lost the war economically in the end of 1941.

[Thunderhawk]

If Hitler didnt try to exterminate and/or enslave Slavic peoples, that alone would have helped him a great deal in the East when it comes to man power and resource aquisition.


If Hitler did NOT help the Italians, and invaded the USSR on time and stuck to one plan or the other he would have gotten further, taking Moscow or at least beseiging it properly while demolishing a great deal more of the USSR's standing army.


Had he allowed his generals to plan and run the offensive, and assuming some of them realized it wont be a blitz and will need winter clothing and equipment, they would have survived winter better and made better progress aswell.


Had Hitler and Goering butted out of the airforce and allowed it to develop long range aircraft for strategic bombing, proper interceptors and fighters, and not bothered with those idiotic resource hog "wonderweapons", amoung other foibles, the airforce would have been better for strategic uses rather then just a tactical arm of the army.




Declaring war on the USA was also a bad move, though too late to matter in my opinion.

Nazi Germany had the potential to cripple the USSR and ultimately win - but such potential would probably come at the expense of the drive he gave the Germans and the Charisma which he used to gain power.

[alyster]

Luftwaffe wouldn't have been able to use stradegic bombers cause they use up too much resources. Planes are bigger, they take more feul, alot more of bombs, more men etc. And they still would have needed the tactical airforce, which was vital in blitzkriegs, defence against Soviet tanks and attacking convoys.

[Thunderhawk]

Their tactical airforce was vital to their blitzkreig, but it was too single minded. The Italians in WW1 learned the value of a strategic airforce. The information was there, but to many people were dogmatic in one view point (tactical arm) or the other (toys).

Hitler went to war with several countries that he could not strike, yet they could strike at him physically and/or economically.


A strategic airforce would allow Nazi Germany to strike those others: Gibralter and GB.



Im not saying it would have saved him, but it would have been an added weapon to use.



*Goering ordered his dive bombers into active air combat over GB. Dive bombers fighting against fighters were at a large disadvantage, and got owned once their own fighter screen was punctured.

[The Immortal Goon]

He shouldn't have restrained any kind of warfare against England and finished them off when he had the chance...The impression I get is that he was almost hoping they'd come around at first there.

It was only after a while he went all out.

And of course, attacking Russia before securing the west was the biggest mistake.

If he had deprived the US of a western foothold in England, this alone would have gone a long way.

Fascism, in general, however, is bound to fail. It's going to go right back in to a standard system of bourgeois rule after it has liquidated the worker's movements it was built to destroy.

-TIG

[alyster]

Yes, stradegic air arm would have expanded German capabilities, however to my mind the cost would have been too high.

[Thunderhawk]

Yes, stradegic air arm would have expanded German capabilities, however to my mind the cost would have been too high.

Its not like the Germans avoided civilian deaths.
Strategic bombing with inci[n]diaries against Russian cities and storage facilities would have been effective, and could be done [relatively] cheaply.


BTW, I agree it would be expensive as a whole.
Its not a great option, but I cant think of another option to hurt Britain short of waiting a few years to build up the Navy and airforce properly. Its still better then those resource wasteful superweapons (the English named "Vengence" weapons, V1 and V2) which did little other then boost morale.

[alyster]

The weight of the war was on eastern front. Germans had limited resources, limited options - why waste them on the stubborn brits? The allied assult to liberate France wouldn't have taken place if the Germans wouldn't have had high loses on eastern front.

[redstarline]

He should never have gone West, attacking the British Empire and its allies was a mistake. Encouraging a Vichy style government through elections in France would have been a better idea than gong to war with France and the British Empire. The rest of the world wouldnt have cared to much what he did to the Communists in the East.
Hitlers best chance of winning WW2 would have been avoiding it.

[alyster]

And how exactly would have he done that? Pretend that England and France didn't declare war on him?

[Attila The Nun]

Had he waited till 1944 to go to war with Britain when his navy would have been sizeable enough to at least battle the Royal Navy, had he fired Goering as head of the Luftwaffe and head of the 4-year plan, had he let women work in the factories, had he waited until synthetic fuel production would be improved, had he took more control of the Gaulieters to centralize the war industry, had he left more war planning to his generals, had he stopped more frivolous spending and allowed more cuts to consumer goods when war began, then maybe he could've won, provided he didn't piss off the Soviet Union or US.

[redstarline]

Hitler could have avoided taking action which forced The Brish Empire and France to declare war on Germany. He could have used the European hatred of Coumminsm, the UK Government backed Franco not long before and many prefered Hitler to Stalin.

[Thunderhawk]

Had he not struck France when he did more and more British forces would have arrived.

More of their aircraft would have arrived aswell.


With the extra might from British land forces and their airforce the German blitz might have stumbled, or even ground to a halt.


If they didnt attack they would be suject to embargo indefinately.

Eventually they would go to war with the Soviets (who declares? who knows) and Allies would fund the weaker, forcing more bloodshed on both.

[Thoss]

I think almost everything has been touched on that I wanted to say. But I will add that the holocaust was a huge drain on the resources of the Riech. This wasn't a decsive factor, but had they post-poned their final solution and save their resources for the Soviet Front perhaps, with some, of the other factors mentioned previously, Germany could have won in the east where it mattered.

Nonetheless, I can't see postponing the holocaust as a viable prospect for the Nazis. They weren't exactly history's greatest example of pragmatists.

[the monkey]

* Completely reform Germany's industries for the war.
* Hire more competent generals who will be given more power to decide tactics etc.
* Convince Franco to join the axis; as support in North Africa and/or in the invasion of Britain
* Invade Britain before declearing war in the USSR.
* Head the army towards Mosrow during the invasion.
* Skip the Holocaust and recruit the Jews as generals and soldiers
* More emphasis on Luftwaffe

[KurtFF8]

What's up with all of these "could ___ have happened?" or "what would the world be like if ____ happened?"

The answer is always automatically "no one can know" because it's impossible to know.

Yes they "could have won" through an infinite number of different ways, but it didn't happen.

[Truth-a-naut]

Luftwaffe wouldn't have been able to use stradegic bombers cause they use up too much resources.

Ahahaha. Real life is not a game of Civilization or Hearts of Iron.
The Luftwaffe overlooked the need for strategic bombers due to the fact they always looked for flexible multiplatformed planes.

[imagicnation]

* Convince Franco to join the axis; as support in North Africa and/or in the invasion of Britain

Except Franco had predicted that Germany would not survive a long war. Hitler tried many times to convince Franco to join, but to no avail.

I had always been under the impression that Hitler's biggest mistakes were:
-Overestimating Italy's capacity for war
-Underestimation Russia's capacity for war
-Controling the army to much, not allowing for the ingenuity of his generals when it was most needed.

[The fifth International]

Controling the army to much, not allowing for the ingenuity of his generals when it was most needed.

I disagree, had it not been to his control of the army, Hitler would have been ousted from power long ago. Remeber that people like Rommel were fermenting a coup for quite a while and he narrowly escaped attempts on his life a couple of times.

Plus, he always had that medal to dangle over the army, which got him some respect.