[Okonkwo]

Allow me to quote myself, as I have already inquired about the topic in question in TLTE:
Does anyone know if there is a transcript of the talks between Nixon and Mao available on the internet? There are some records of the talks with Zhou Enlai, but I can't find the one conversation Nixon had with Mao.

[HoniSoit]

There you go:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB19/05-01.htm

Mao didn't participate in most of the substantive talks tho.

[Okonkwo]

Thank you very much Honi.

[HoniSoit]

No problem, Okonkwo.

The document is also held by the National Security Archive but hasn't been put together with the Zhou-Kissinger-Nixon documents.

p.s. I'm not sure but I think that's perhaps the only (or at least one of the very few) conversation Mao participated.

[Okonkwo]

p.s. I'm not sure but I think that's perhaps the only (or at least one of the very few) conversation Mao participated.

Exactly. That's why I was so eager to read it, the man is only known through his political writing and often very gruesome or even outright wrong political actions. I wanted to see if he really was the nice fat man many people like to picture him as. There are some quotes in this document which I find very interesting, it was really a highly absorbing read.
And of course, I wanted to see how Kissinger, arguably the best diplomat the USA has seen, behaves in this rather precarious situation, at the table with one of the mightiest and most influential man in the world.

[HoniSoit]

the man is only known through his political writing and often very gruesome or even outright wrong political actions. I wanted to see if he really was the nice fat man many people like to picture him as. There are some quotes in this document which I find very interesting, it was really a highly absorbing read.

If I were to base my impression of Mao solely on that conversation alone, he would appear to me to be an extremely pragmatic (e.g. Mao likes to deal with the American Right more than the Liberals) and seasoned politician, who is very interesting to talk to.

It's really difficult to get an authentic close look at Mao as a person. The opinions of people close to him often differ substantially - I think the most interesting personal account of Mao based on first-hand experience that has emerged in the last few years is that of his doctor for many decades titled 'the private life of chairman mao' which is both intriguing and disturbing.

And of course, I wanted to see how Kissinger, arguably the best diplomat the USA has seen, behaves in this rather precarious situation, at the table with one of the mightiest and most influential man in the world.

I was reading S Hersh's book on Kissinger 'price of power' which is based a lot on the accounts of people who have been close to him which is very interesting.

[Okonkwo]

If I were to base my impression of Mao solely on that conversation alone, he would appear to me to be an extremely pragmatic (e.g. Mao likes to deal with the American Right more than the Liberals) and seasoned politician, who is very interesting to talk to.

Yes, that surprised me at first, that he likes to deal with the right-wing, then I immediately realised why. I was once again reminded of Mao's interesting strategies. His utter lack of interest in the questions Nixon was very anxious to talk about also grabbed my attention. He didn't bother at all with the politics of the day.

It's really difficult to get an authentic close look at Mao as a person. The opinions of people close to him often differ substantially - I think the most interesting personal account of Mao based on first-hand experience that has emerged in the last few years is that of his doctor for many decades titled 'the private life of chairman mao' which is both intriguing and disturbing.

Thank you for the recommendation, the book is now on my "to-buy" list. A personal account of the man seems very exciting

I was reading S Hersh's book on Kissinger 'price of power' which is based a lot on the accounts of people who have been close to him which is very interesting.

I think the Nixon/Kissinger era is very interesting, especially his détente with the Soviets and rapprochement with the People's Republic. Regarding especially this subject am currently eyeing Nixon and Kissinger: Partners in Power by Robert Dallek and Zhou Enlai: The Last Perfect Revolutionary by Gao Wenqian.

[HoniSoit]

His utter lack of interest in the questions Nixon was very anxious to talk about also grabbed my attention. He didn't bother at all with the politics of the day.

I also find it interesting that Mao repeatedly ignored the more substantive questions and instead insisted on dealing only with 'philosophy'. I think this can be interpreted in a number of ways: 1] his health by that stage has deteriorated considerably and simply didn't have the mental strength to deal with the issues, 2] he's more of a big-picture man who probably has made his general views regarding foreign policy known to Zhou and the Foreign Ministry who will, as the later talks indicated, negotiate on the issues in more details.

A personal account of the man seems very exciting

Although I have to say reading it, some of the stories about Mao are a little too eccentric to be believed without a grain of salt.

Zhou Enlai: The Last Perfect Revolutionary by Gao Wenqian.

I will look into that book - thanks. I think Zhou's career deserves more than he has received in scholarship especially in the West. There is just far too little accounts written about him, and the dynamic of his partnership with Mao, starting in a far higher and different position than Mao but switched to Mao's side and contented himself as Mao's subordinate for the next four decades.

[Potemkin]

I also find it interesting that Mao repeatedly ignored the more substantive questions and instead insisted on dealing only with 'philosophy'. I think this can be interpreted in a number of ways: 1] his health by that stage has deteriorated considerably and simply didn't have the mental strength to deal with the issues, 2] he's more of a big-picture man who probably has made his general views regarding foreign policy known to Zhou and the Foreign Ministry who will, as the later talks indicated, negotiate on the issues in more details.

[2] is more likely; Mao always tended to take a long-term view of things (hence his apparent lack of interest in current affairs) and to be a strategist rather than a tactician. This is also the cultural tradition in China; emperors are traditionally supposed to be 'above the fray', so to speak, intervening merely to keep things on the right track. It's a Daoist tradition known as 'wu wei'.

I will look into that book - thanks. I think Zhou's career deserves more than he has received in scholarship especially in the West. There is just far too little accounts written about him, and the dynamic of his partnership with Mao, starting in a far higher and different position than Mao but switched to Mao's side and contented himself as Mao's subordinate for the next four decades.

Zhou Enlai was one of the most attractive figures of the Chinese Communist movement. The public revered him; at his funeral, there was a genuine outpouring of public grief. The fact that he chose to be subordinate to and absolutely loyal to Chairman Mao says a lot about Mao himself.

[Okonkwo]

I also find it interesting that Mao repeatedly ignored the more substantive questions and instead insisted on dealing only with 'philosophy'. I think this can be interpreted in a number of ways: 1] his health by that stage has deteriorated considerably and simply didn't have the mental strength to deal with the issues, 2] he's more of a big-picture man who probably has made his general views regarding foreign policy known to Zhou and the Foreign Ministry who will, as the later talks indicated, negotiate on the issues in more details.

I say the latter. Mao may well have been the poster boy of the PRC, but from the Great Leap Forward on he didn't do much any more. Mainly because it failed horribly, another reason may have been that he simply didn't want to and saw the political issues of the day as too trivial to bother him.

Although I have to say reading it, some of the stories about Mao are a little too eccentric to be believed without a grain of salt.

Precisely. It's another reason for the mystique surrounding him, you don't know what part of the stories are wrong or right.

I will look into that book - thanks. I think Zhou's career deserves more than he has received in scholarship especially in the West. There is just far too little accounts written about him, and the dynamic of his partnership with Mao, starting in a far higher and different position than Mao but switched to Mao's side and contented himself as Mao's subordinate for the next four decades.

I agree so very much with that. Zhou is a highly interesting person, his fate is perhaps even a tragic one. That's why I definitely want to buy that book, I am looking for an insight in his psyche.

EDIT: Damn you Potemkin, phrasing my views in a more eloquent and precise manner, damn you to hell!

[Political Interest]

I agree so very much with that. Zhou is a highly interesting person, his fate is perhaps even a tragic one. That's why I definitely want to buy that book, I am looking for an insight in his psyche.

Why did he never speak out against Mao, then? Zhou would never criticise more than would annoy Mao. What use is this?

[Okonkwo]

Why did he never speak out against Mao, then? Zhou would never criticise more than would annoy Mao. What use is this?

Did I say he was a brave person? Not at all, I simply said he was a very interesting person. This is about how a man can entirely give up his own self-interest and pride to serve a single man and his country. Nonetheless Zhou dared more than most did in the face of the most powerful man in China.

[HoniSoit]

I agree with Okonkwo and would only add that:

Why did he never speak out against Mao, then? Zhou would never criticise more than would annoy Mao. What use is this?

Which is precisely what makes Zhou's life interesting (Zhou wasn't much of a fun of Mao in the early days, often siding against Mao tho).

Whether you take seniority or experience, Zhou all surpassed Mao in the early days of the Chinese Communist Party. He was already a very seasoned communist doing underground and organisation works before Mao attained any significant post within the Party - you can hardly doubt his political skills. ButI think at some point, Zhou realised in terms of vision and audacity (or courage, or brutality) - those characters that make a great leader - Mao was far superior leader, and decided to help him to take power, and serve him as a relatively moderating force.

Zhu De and a host of others did speak quite frankly against Mao but his life is somewhat less interesting than that of Zhou in my opinion.

[corleniet]

Mao laughed at the American politic system for Nixon fallen down for nothing indeed