[Un Owen]

I did not say that a convert giving birth to a child creates "a blood relation to the ancient Jews." Never did I say anything about a genetic (i.e.: blood) relation being created with the first Jewish society.

If you actually understood Judaism instead of taking all of your information from anti-Jewish, or more precisely anti-Israel, sources then perhaps you could gain a fuller understanding of:
1) What it means to be Jewish;
2) What is means to have Israel, even for non-Zionists;

When a Jewish child is born, there is not a genetic connection to the past, but a, more or less, philosophical-religious-spiritual connection to those who came before you. The connection is not genetic, but a more metaphysical connection.

[clanko]

I did not say that a convert giving birth to a child creates "a blood relation to the ancient Jews." Never did I say anything about a genetic (i.e.: blood) relation being created with the first Jewish society.

If you actually understood Judaism instead of taking all of your information from anti-Jewish, or more precisely anti-Israel, sources then perhaps you could gain a fuller understanding of:
1) What it means to be Jewish;
2) What is means to have Israel, even for non-Zionists;

When a Jewish child is born, there is not a genetic connection to the past, but a, more or less,philosophical-religious-spiritual connection to those who came before you. The connection is not genetic, but a more metaphysical connection.

This is vile. Since, I learn about anti-Zionism predominantly from the Jewish persepctive...since the worlds most renowned anti-Zionists are Jewish..for religious and political beliefs...your mindless accusation is a tad unfounded.

I understand completely about the 'philosophical-religious-spiritual connection ' which you describe. Thats why you have Jewish culture etc. Yet, this does not in anyway grant the right to have this imposed on anyone else or to replace another people who indeed have their own culture.

Skipping segregation to the go on and segregate is merely trying to force the problem into the dark.

[Un Owen]

Clanko wrote:

This is vile. Since, I learn about anti-Zionism predominantly from the Jewish persepctive...since the worlds most renowned anti-Zionists are Jewish..for religious and political beliefs...your mindless accusation is a tad unfounded.

Clanko, I am sorry if I offended you with my post. I should have added a clarifier to the opening of my statement. It should be viewed as a response to Jina and only Jina and not yourself. I know that the most renowned anti-Zionists are Jewish, and it is from them that I garner my understanding of Zionism and anti-Zionism. It was my contention that Jina, Renwan, Ixabert, and many others, take their anti-Zionism from what are in many respects anti-Israel/anti-Jewish sources and therefore have a rather clouded approach to the nature of Israel and Judaism in general.

I understand completely about the 'philosophical-religious-spiritual connection ' which you describe. Thats why you have Jewish culture etc. Yet, this does not in anyway grant the right to have this imposed on anyone else or to replace another people who indeed have their own culture.

But did the first Jewish settlers truly seek to "replace another people," or did they seek a homeland of their own within this region, living alongside the local population?

It is unfortunate the homeland took on the visage that it did, but can we truly put our vision of a 21st century Israeli state onto the state of 1948. If you could travel back to 1948, I do not think you would find many, at least outside of the halls of power, who wanted anything other than a speck of land to call their own. An area upon which they could live and hopefully not have to fear a jackboot kicking down their door in the middle of the night.

I would contend that the replacing of Palestinian society truly came about because of the actions taken by the surrounding Arab nations. They, the Arab states, felt threatened by the creation of what was viewed as nothing more than an attempt by European powers to further exert their control in this region; and in turn a level of anti-Semitism did play role in this war, but it was primarily a fight against an Imperial power exerting control over their region.

What could have been a Jewish state, with an equal and respected Palestinian population, was destroyed by the fears of the neighbouring states. The constant state of fear that Israel has had to live under has affected their views of Palestinians and as such has led to their second-class citizen status. I truly believe that there was no ill-will intended, but that this came about because of the historical-political realities surrounding the creation of Israel.

Skipping segregation to the go on and segregate is merely trying to force the problem into the dark.

I am sorry, but I really do not understand what you mean here?