[Doomhammer]

when you failed to understand your own words and the meaning of the usage of the term "but".

Screw that "but". (no pun intended)
Sigh. Whatever you wish to believe...

And how did you show that?

That Ataturk welcomed many Jews to Turkey during the 1930s
That Turkey and Greece had excellent relations in the 30s and the populations exhanges of the 1920s were dune by mutual consent
That there is no evidence of or justification for racisim or ethnic cleansing in "kemalist nationalism"
That the pogrom in Istanbul didn't have anything to do with our evil ideology (wish I hadn't mentioned it because you are obstinate and focus on things which aren't there).

The previous page, do you want me to post it again or are you kind enough to scroll back?

No. Can't be bothered. tl;dr

Governement has consiostently persecuted the Greek people. This is a fact, whether you like it or not, or whether Kemal is responsible or not.

Yes that's true I don't think I ever said anything on the contrary. Just don't forget about the Turkish Cypriots. Ok?

Pogrom

Acknowledged.

Cyprus

No. Fail.

Pilot

No. Fail. Cid's explanation.

Tonight am actually a bit tired to continue, tomorrow we shall analyze the argumentation piece by piece and observe if this accusation shall hold any weight, and we shall do so using the axiom.

Whatever milks your cow.

[Vanasalus]

Your disgust is mind-bending obviously.

You are right if the subject of disgust, attributed to me, is you. Nothing personal…I am just not fond of those bearing symptoms of inferiority complex.

The Treaty says that Imvros and Tenedos, and Istanpolis Minorities to be respected and treated equally.

They were in contrast destroyed through Imvros was turned in to an open prison, Istanpolis through the Pogrom.

I do not know where those Imvros, Tenedos and Istanpolis are. On the other hand, the pogroms against minorities living in Istanbul in mid 1950s are a shameful page in our history and we will live with it. Regarding to Gokceada and Bozcaada; It is worth nothing that current Patriarch was raised in Gokceada and he is quite fond of visiting his house and relatives there. Only prison I see around is chickpea-sized entity in your skull.

On the other hand the same treaty called for the respect of the Muslims in Greece, they were respected, they are still there, nobody denies them anything, and this is FAct cause their organization for Human Rights is registered under the the name Turkish Organization whatever for Human Rights.

When Lausanne was signed and population exchange was completed, 85% of the western Thrace was Turkish while 15% Greek. Now, the percentages are exact opposite. Turks of Western Thrace did not pass through better times than Greeks in Istanbul. Not at all…

Wtf are comparing Turk? Wtf? are you that stupid or are you simply illiterate?

Repeating the same clauses a thousand time will not help your hypothesis around, little parrot.

The muftis in Greece are elected democratically, the Muftis in Turkey are appointed by the State, we did once appoint them, on the pretext that you do the same for ever and ever and you dare accuse of what? Of something that we have been to court and payed for it? What is your point Turk?

Since 1985 till now, you are wrong. Greek state appoints them. Elected muftis are not recognized, sometimes jailed.

You fail Turk, cause simply we are different, and this has nothing to do with race or whatever you might invent, this has to do with culture and education.

We are not animals, we are Humans, we are not lawyers of murderers

Little parrot. I tried to find the similar classifications (e.g. animal vs human, etc), those you are quite creative in generating, but I failed. I guess you are right: culture and education really matters. But also the inferiority complex developed as a result of events of history, at which, for the greater part of the past millennium, we were the masters and you were our slaves.

I think its time for the summary of this discussion, point by point, source by source and your despicable argumentation and its frequency, please add some more amusing material to be used. When i find some more time and space, i will deal with you people for good and once and for all, cause at it seems, you will simply play stupid until the end of time.

Be my guest.

[noemon]

I do not know where those Imvros, Tenedos and Istanpolis are. On the other hand, the pogroms against minorities living in Istanbul in mid 1950s are a shameful page in our history and we will live with it. Regarding to Gokceada and Bozcaada; It is worth nothing that current Patriarch was raised in Gokceada and he is quite fond of visiting his house and relatives there. Only prison I see around is chickpea-sized entity in your skull.

That is because that is the only place in Turkey with Greek-origin-Turkish citizenship people left in the whole of Turkey, i think their community is less that a few hundreds. Even though the Treaty had established the exact number of Greeks in every single part of Turkey and the case is sourced below. Just read it this time and save yourself from further humiliation.

As for Imvros it seems that you are not aware of that it was turned in to an Open-Prison? Do not worry dear Turk for every single thing there is a source:

Documentary Part 1

Documentary Part 2


Turkish violations:

Treaty of Lausanne (1923) exempted Imbros and Tenedos from the large-scale population exchange that took place between Greece and Turkey, and required Turkey to accommodate the local Greek majority and their rights:

"The islands of Imbros and Tenedos, remaining under Turkish sovereignty, shall enjoy a special administrative organisation composed of local elements and furnishing every guarantee for the native non-Moslem population insofar as concerns local administration and the protection of persons and property. The maintenance of order will be assured therein by a police force recruited from amongst the local population by the local administration above provided for and placed under its orders."

Thus, under the Turkish Republic, the islands were to be largely autonomous and self-governing, with their own police force. This provision was not guaranteed by anything more than the faith of the Treaty.

Intercommunal relations

The Greek emigrés from Turkey assert numerous violations of the religious, linguistic, and economic rights guaranteed as matters of international concern by the Treaty, including freedom of the Orthodox religion and the right to practice the professions. Leaders of the Greek community in Turkey "voluntarily waived" these rights in 1926; but the Treaty provides (Article 44) that these rights can only be modified by the consent of the majority of the Council of League of Nations. The emigrés assert that the signatures to the waivers were obtained by orders of the police, and that Avrilios Spatharis and Savvas Apostologlou, who refused to sign, were imprisoned. The Greek government appealed this action to the Council and was upheld, but Turkey has not complied.

In addition, the following grievances apply particularly to Imbros:

* In 1923, Turkey dismissed the elected government of the island, and installed mainlanders. 1500 Imbriots who had taken refuge from the Turkish War of Independence on Lemnos and in Thessalonica were denied the right to return, as undesirables.
* In 1927, the system of local administration on Imbros is abolished, and the Greek schools are closed. In 1952-3, the Greek Imbriots were permitted to build new ones, closed again in 1964.
* In 1943, Turkey arrested the Metropolitan of Imbros and Tenedos with other Orthodox clerics. They also confiscated the lands on Imbros belonging the monasteries of Great Lavra and Koutloumousiou on Mount Athos, expelled the tenants, and installed settlers; when the Mayor of Imbros and four village elders protested, they were arrested and sent to the mainland.
* Between 1964 and 1984, almost all the usable land on Imbros, including all the land have been expropriated, for inadequate compensation, for an army camp, a minimum-security prison, reforestation projects, a dam project, and a national park.
* Nicholas Palaiopoulos, a town councilor, was arrested and imprisoned in 1966 for complaining to the Greek Ambassador on the latter's visit to Imbros; he, together with the Mayor of Imbros and 20 others, was imprisoned again in 1974.
* A crime wave has hit Imbros since 1964; the old Cathedral at Kastro (Kaleköy) was desecrated on the night of the Turkish landing on Cyprus; the present Cathedral was looted in March 1993; there have been a number of rapes and murders, officially blamed on convicts and soldiers, but none of them have been solved.
* In July 1993, the Yurkish National Security began a program to settle mainland Turks on Imbros (and Tenedos)

When the Treaty was signed the Muslims not the Turks, numbered 80.000 souls, currently they number 94.000.

The Greeks in Istanpolis numbered 200.000 now they are about 5000 alltogether.

They are the remnants of the estimated 200,000 Greeks who were permitted under the provisions of the Treaty of Lausanne to remain in Turkey following the 1923 population exchange, which involved the forcible resettlement of approximately 1.5 million Greeks from Anatolia and Eastern Thrace. After years of persecution (eg.Istanbul Pogrom), in 1995, fewer than 10,000 Greeks still lived in Turkey,[1] and the Greek Orthodox population in Istanbul, as of 2006, is estimated at just over 5,000.[2]

Ethnic groups in the Balkans and Asia Minor as of early 20th Century (William R. Shepherd, Historical Atlas, 1911).

Since 1924, the status of the Greek minority in Turkey has been ambiguous. Beginning in the 1930s, the government instituted repressive policies forcing many Greeks to emigrate. Examples are the labour battalions drafted among non-Muslims during World War II as well as the Fortune Tax (Varlık Vergisi) levied mostly on non-Muslims during the same period. These resulted in financial ruination and death for many Greeks. The exodus was given greater impetus with the Istanbul Pogrom of September 1955 when thousands of Greeks were forced to flee for their lives, eventually reducing the Greek population to about 48,000 by 1965 and to about 5000 by 2006.

I am sure though that you are unable to do the math as you have proven all these days Turco.

Repeating the same clauses a thousand time will not help your hypothesis around, little parrot.

Your arguments are disgusting, and whatever shit mouth you invent they shall remain disgusting.

Since 1985 till now, you are wrong. Greek state appoints them. Elected muftis are not recognized, sometimes jailed.

Wtf do you continue this pathetic argument of yours, when the material have been posted already? Are you unable to read through them as illustrated already or are you simply plainly stupid and illiterate?

Little parrot. I tried to find the similar classifications (e.g. animal vs human, etc), those you are quite creative in generating, but I failed. I guess you are right: culture and education really matters. But also the inferiority complex developed as a result of events of history, at which, for the greater part of the past millennium, we were the masters and you were our slaves. Wink

This is the ultimate evidence of your inferiority complex.

Keep up the good work, am sure your fellow citizens are very proud of you.

Be my guest.

Be patient all in time, all in time.

That Ataturk welcomed many Jews to Turkey during the 1930s
That Turkey and Greece had excellent relations in the 30s and the populations exhanges of the 1920s were dune by mutual consent
That there is no evidence of or justification for racisim or ethnic cleansing in "kemalist nationalism"
That the pogrom in Istanbul didn't have anything to do with our evil ideology (wish I hadn't mentioned it because you are obstinate and focus on things which aren't there).

Maybe Kemalism is not the source of the evil, who knows?, i am not sure, and i do not care to be honest.

What i care about is the grievances conducted and the pathetic arguments supplied that justify the murderers.

No. Fail.

All your Cypriot threads, have failed. Do you want me to bring them over here?

So, "fail" solely applies to you.

No. Fail. Cid's explanation.

Cid's explanation failed as illustrated. Your pilot was a murderer, and your gov was a murderer for violating simple laws and jeopardizing the lives of commercial flights for nothing, only to prove to people like Vanasalus that you are Masters, when in fact you are nothing but a value in World Bank figures, and an insignificant one for that matter.

Keep on throwing the blame to the others, and then preach about bigotry and moving forward.

Yes certainly, the pilot and his family is solely to blame cause you come and jeopardize the lives of civilians and tourists, we should leave you alone roaming around our FIR, don't we? And if we follow protocol and you land your planes in our heads we are to blame for following protocol? Arent we.

What can i say Doomhammer?

Wtf can i say to individuals like you?

Wtf can i say to Vanasalus ridiculing arguments?

As stated already everything is payed in this lifetime:

OLA EDO PLIRONONTE

[Doomhammer]

Little parrot. I tried to find the similar classifications (e.g. animal vs human, etc), those you are quite creative in generating, but I failed. I guess you are right: culture and education really matters. But also the inferiority complex developed as a result of events of history, at which, for the greater part of the past millennium, we were the masters and you were our slaves. Wink

This is the ultimate evidence of your inferiority complex.

Keep up the good work, am sure your fellow citizens are very proud of you.

I once reached a similar conclusion about you as well. Well, maybe narcissism is a more appropriate diagnosis (for you at least).

i am not sure, and i do not care to be honest.

If you do not care then why do you label it as an evil ideology?

Do you want me to bring them over here?

No.

So, "fail" solely applies to you.

FAIL.

Your pilot was a murderer, and your gov was a murderer for violating simple laws and jeopardizing the lives of commercial flights for nothing,

when in fact you are nothing but a value in World Bank figures, and an insignificant one for that matter.

Wtf can i say to individuals like you?

Wtf can i say to Vanasalus ridiculing arguments?

"I am at your beck and call, Master."




Your adjective filled texts are amusing to read. It's like reading from Pravda.

[Cid]

Smyrna-pontos-Imvros and Tenedos-Pogrom-School propaganda funded by your State-Imia-Pilot.

Will you continue justifying these events are will you accept them?

Keep yourself repeating them just to prove what kind of troll you are.

FALSE i clarified from Day ONE, Greece is not disrespectful in no way. Ellas is more appropriate because it refers to the whole ethnos. And as stated my offering was purely symbolic. GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD. AD Hominem assumptions are the least amusing.

What assumptions, you wrote yourself that I was disrespecting the name ellas. Besides you kept nagging for a word that has meaning in English and you imagine as more approapiate.

What on earth are you babbling?

Did you just aim to justify the murderer?

Well done. You have just proven all my accusations against your personality, and against your disgusting government.

What murderer, he crashed into another plane by his own error, it is called an accident.

I have already answered you, you are just blind to see it until it confirms your sentimental clouded mind.

Show us the cloud?

Which event mentioned is not true? Where are your sources? And even if you manage to convince a dumasss in here that one of the events is exaggerated or whatever, will that change the conclusion? That there is Turkish orchestration and ultimate propaganda? You have given too much credit in yourself.

You are not even capable of apprehending what is written, read.

I verified it when i posted my Pogrom sources. I didnt say Kemal himself, but the Kemalist regime which is the current and the past century's Turkish regime. Is it true, YES IT IS.

Yes you did claim Kemal killed himself:
I think that the Turks in general have much more to feel pride about their Ottoman past than their Kemalist present, in more or less every aspect, both in the nationalistic domain as a Power to be reckoned but also as a government that made use of its resources(Ellines, Jews), rather than kill them at sight(Kemal)

Do you have any sources arguing otherwise. I do not think so. So, either accept it like a human being or fall into this disgusting circular oblivion. Your choice.

You have already fallen into a circular oblivion by trolling here phrasing the words deny over and over.

Instead of spitting vomit up in the air, you can always project to where i have made faulty assumption, where have i denied something, and where have i not apologized for my temper, whose source has been more than obvious.

When you act like a troll by resorting to compulsive accusations, the only thing you will get is vomit.

If you
Again if you have anything left inside your mind:

WHAT IS YOUR HONEST OPINION ON DOOMHAMMERS BOMB ARGUMENT?

WHAT IS YOUR HONEST OPINION ON VANASALUS MUFTI ARGUMENT?

WHAT IS YOUR HONEST OPINION ON THE DEATH OF THE PILOT?

WHAT IS YOUR HONEST OPINION ON THE PROPAGANDA THEY HAVE BEEN FEEDING YOU?

WHAT IS IT?

WILL YOU ANSWER OR EVADE AGAIN?

What propaganda, the only propaganda is in your head, with your compulsive behaviour that proves nothign but the synchronisation on the collective conscieseness of bigotry and hate towards Turkey.

The culture of Anatolia is multicultural and every aspect of it belongs to Turkey. Greeks of Anatolian heritage may relate with it, but it relates nothing to Greece.

FALSE, the culture of the Ionians in Anatolia, belongs to the Ionians, nobody else, only to them, and that is ELLAS AND THE ELLINES, and nothing not even remotely similar to anything Turkish. The brilliant Anatolian culture of the Ellines of Anatolia belongs to the Ellines, and nobody else, anything opposite is cultural despicable usurpation and blatant stealing and propaganda. If you wanted to have a piece of that pie of History you could have integrated these people in to your society instead of ethnically cleanse them.

And where is Ionia, it is in western Anatolia which is Turkish. Republic of Greece has nothing to do with Greek culture in Anatolia. The Greek national citizens who are from Anatolia are related, but not Greece. Republic of Greece has nothing to do with Anatolia. It is nothing but a fascist idea of your collective conscience, a remnant of the Megali Idea. If you want peace, let it go in your mind. Then you will be free and Greece will be in free and at peace with her neighbours.

Now not only you killed them all, but you dare to usurp their cultural achievements as well? This is even more disgusting and despicable.

Who killed what, they were exchanged with the Turkish/muslim citizens in Greece.

You think that you can teach me my own History when you are even unable to read and comprehend the articles you post?

The closing paragraph says it all unless you are illiterate.:

No I cant learn you anything because you because your mind is not capable of absorbing anything that contradicts the fact your conscience is based on bigotry and hate. You do nothing but repeat like a broken record just to show how hateful your mind has become.

Before you accuse me of illiteracy read it again, there was a Greek government when the Turkish invasion occurred:


While the physical collapse of the junta as a government was immediately caused by the Cyprus debacle , its ideological collapse was triggered by the 1973 Athens Polytechnic uprising. The uprising at the Polytechneion was the event that discredited the military government most and acted as a key catalyst for its eventual demise by exposing the internal contradictions and stresses of the regime thus destroying the myth of the political cohesion of the junta and, therefore, irreparably damaging the political credibility of the "Ethnosotirios Epanastasis" and its message.

A year before the Cyprus event the uprising had started and the country was in total anarchy. Ministers were coming and going, utter confusion, war on the streets, murdering students. Total anarchy. That is when you invaded.

Yeah the famous dolchstosslegende, there was a government. But please go ahead and fool yourselfs that the situation was abused.

Is this another attempt to convince the others that our sheets are as dirty as yours?

Yes it is the sooner you get over this victim mentality the better. There is no difference between a dirty sheet and a dirtier sheet, they both dirty. Be in peace with your history if you want to make peace with your neighbour, let go of your hate and fear that is imprented into your collective conscience.

Let me repeat:

Pogrom-Imia-Imvros-Cyprus-Pilot During PEACE PERIOD.

Repeat all you want.

Doesnt that hold any value? In your world or do you mean to say that peace crimes and war crimes are all the same, morally? In War there is no crime except for the crimes as stated by the Hague tribunal, torture, assassination of citizens, and the rest, do you have any evidence that we committed WAR-CRIMES during WAR?

What are you mumbling about, didn’t you justify in your post the killing if Turks and ethnically cleansing Greece of Turks and Albanians was justified because it was a war period.

On the other hand i have evidence that you(Turkey) committed both War-Crimes and Crimes during Peace.

Good for you, go make your case at the Hague.

What is this? An attempt to show you got an answer? Sorry this is the real world. And in the real world, murderers rot in Hell, their lawyers go even further according to Dante.

Dante is fiction, just as your collective conscience, the sooner you get rid of it, the better.

There was coup going on, orchestrated by the junta in Athens and the was communal civil war going on ever since it became independent, hardly a peace.


Your Cypriot debates have all failed, do not make me bring them into this thread.

Ofcourse it will fail, the lie in your be dissolved by none but you.

False, he died in 1999, unless there was another that i am not aware of. His own error? His own error that you enter our FIR without supplying any notification, his own error following International Law that states that any fucker who jeopardizes the lives of citizens and tourists by entering the FIR illegally must be thrown out of the airspace before one causes the deaths of innocent civilians? His own error following legal protocol into a move that both of them have conducted some million of times.

To make it clear: Every-time you enter our airspace, you jeopardize the lives of tourists and civilians, and we are forced to throw you out immediately, to do that, we have to come underneath your aircrafts and push you out, of the airspace, this is standards procedure. Your murderers can choose to leave the airspace, or simply land on top of our aircrafts, that Turkish motherfucker chose the second.

Will you continue arguing for the murders or do you actually have a human side too?

There are hardly airlines flying straight over the Aegean. Both sides are jeopardizing the issue, don’t blame it on Turkey. Both Greece and Turkey are playing the game. Your government is guilty because it acts as if national airspace is violated and make show machoistic dogfight shows.

And unlike Turkish airforce who doesn’t apply FLIR protocols and Greek airforce actually does violate Turkish airspace:

Turkish air space violated by Greek jets
ANKARA, Turkey, May 17 (UPI) -- Two Greek military jets violated Turkish air space this week prompting protests from Turkey's government, the Turkish military said Thursday.
The Turkish General Staff said for the third time this week, a pair of Greek military jets entered Turkey's restricted air space without incident, The New Anatolian reported.
While Tuesday's incursion into Turkish air space by two Greek F-16s just north of Limnos Island lasted for only a minute, a statement from the General Staff said two similar incursions occurred a day earlier.
The military statement said Monday two incidents occurred where Greek planes entered Turkish air space without permission.
The New Anatolian said the most recent unauthorized incursion prompted the military to inform the Turkish Foreign Ministry about the incidents.
LINK

Give me official proof that the Greek army raped and killed civilians, and i will accept it and apologize. I am not a Turk.

I don’t want your apologize, not from a bigoted and hateful one like you. Besides you have already apologized enough for today.

Give me official proof of ethnic cleansing of civilians.
And i will accept it, I am not a Turk, i repeat.

Yes you are, you are the same Turk that is in you bigoted hateful mind of yours.
And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you

It is not me failing for your unrealistic expectations, it is you eager to find excuse and claim all Turks are the same confirming you bigotry.

You have confirmed it yourself, i do nothing to you, i simply point out your relevance.

Forget it you cant even apprehend what I am saying let alone understand my message.

You are either comparing the Greeks to the Jews of the holocaust or the Turks to the Nazi's, how pathetic. You fail with your moral argument.

YA, clarify cause this is gonna be more amusing.

You said that all people are responsible for their grievances.

Do you separate the Jews as being more special than the Greeks? And that this does not apply to them because they are somehow special, and you consider the Greeks as more inferior to them as humans, and the Greek grievance is not of an equal weight?

And something else, as stated the Jew grievance was by Hitler who was inspired by you, and who was once and out. Your persecutions are even greater cause they are continuous, and you keep verifying my point that all Turks are the same.

All your saying here is your own bigoted mind at work not mine. I did not say anything about you weight with the Jews. Just like you have said countless of times you are comparing apples and oranges. Your nation has never been the victim of genocide. You are keen on playing the victim after your Megali Idea was shattered. And by referring to Hitler you act according to Godwin’s law.

I am not misquoting the words, you are wrongly applying its content. It precisely says to move forward, but you are doing non of such, rather you excuse current situation by making arguments on how morally and historically wrong the Turks have been, just to confirm it with your bigoted ideas and excuse yourself from making progress

To make progress you have to accept the past, something that you are not willing to do, even though the evidence have outweighed totally all your disgusting arguments.

What history, the fragmented and sentimentalized one from your collective conscience. I am at peace with my past, I don’t hate Greece or Greeks for what they did. Are you willing to become at peace with yours.

Are you willing to make progress

Or rot in that national conscience of hate and fear that you are in.

They are not State sponsored, it is the argument Greeks use when confronting Turks. But what is state sponsored and much worse then some theory is the Greek education which teaches children that nothing good comes from Turks:

Softening of "bad Turks" image in school textbooks sparks outcry in Greece
[i[Monday , 02 April 2007[/i]

Moves to prepare 6th grade Greek history textbooks which present a more positive image of Turks than in the past have caused controversy in Greece.
Speaking about the preparations underway to make additions and/or extractions from the current textbooks, Greek National Education Council President Professor Veremis said "I do not understand why we have always portrayed Turks as monsters. Why do we not explain our own excesses in Anatolia?"

The Greek government has in fact taken a step backwards, due to sharp public reaction, to its original plans to "soften" the image of Turks presented in elementary school textbooks. National Education Minister Marieatta Yianaku has said that experts will examine the books, and will make additions or extractions if deemed necessary. Professor Veremis, a well-known Greek intellectual, talked more about the portrayal of Turks as what he characterized as "monsters," noting "If all Turks were monsters, monsters kill eachother. And the Ottoman empire lived on for hundreds of years." Veremis also cast light on Greek failure to discuss their own warfare, talking about the Greek invasion of Tripoli and how the city was reduced to rubble "There are monsters everywhere. Are we forgetting what we did? Why don't we talk about the excesses we carried out in Asia Minor?"
LINK


You seriously think that you have a reply for everything don't you?

Your quote only proves my point, and destroys yours. In Greece there is actual discussion and softening of the portrayal of Turkey by the Minister of Education himself. On the point i made and you evaded with ad-hominem again is:

Read again before you make assumptions.

On the other hand we have some young Turks boys and girls in here that keep on justifying the murders. And you actaully believe that you can also compare our society with yours? in any case, again:

I have proof that your government state-sponsors propaganda in regards to Anatolia.

Good for you with your collectivized conscience, know you can you having the dirt ammo to confirm your bigoted and hateful reality.

Do you have any proof that Greece does the same?

You are the proof yourself of propaganda, sadly you cant recognize it.

If you do not simply stay silent, cause i am not going to allow to any "point" of yours to come through. None.

You cant let it come through since that would disrupt your pseudo collective conscience imprinted on you to hate and fear the big bad Turk. Without that you fear to loose your Greekness. Let me tell you, your Greekness is already dead. That is why you insist on using Greek words, mumble the words of your automated chauvinist collective conscience. In fact your Greekness has never lived, it is based on the Turks as antagonists and the Greek as the protagonists. It has always been pixilation between the electrons of your clouded mind. Your Greekness is based on a lie to hate. First be at peace with yourself by releasing yourself from this lie. Not for me, a Turk, but for the sake of yourself.

As you can see the Greeks have no fear in discussing out in the open whatever crime they might have committed. On the contrary it is a criminal offense to even mention such things in Turkey.

You are not discussing anything you are processing some words out of your collectivized conscience.

Who cares if Doomhammer brought in first, does that excuse you for bringing in vommit. When I make a counter argument it is a lie? And when you make a counter argument it is a fact? Seriously grow up, open you mind. And if "my side" is ultimately wrong as you frase it, why this compulsive behavior to react against me and others. Are you so keen on a mental masturbation, or do you seek affirmation of your bigoted distorted mind.

Will you ever post your honest opinion, or will you keep this game of yours? What is your opinion on Doomhammer's bomb argument? Say it and end this story, Go ahead.

This time, nothing will drop on the floor. Promise.

You are seeking for a mental masturbation. Dont be lazy my opinions are written all over, read it yourself.

Completely beyond the point, and irrelevant ,as i said i will keep on going in here, until you come out of the closet.

The question is when will you come out of your collective conscience.

Same shite, arent you tired already repeating the same crap over and over again? Your accusations serve no purpose and none at all, they do not come through, get it through your head.

Nothing comes through in the propagated mind, until it realizes itself.

Even if I give you an answer a 100 times, it is of no use since you are deaf and blind. Make peace with your history instead of asking others to make it for you.

Only once will do the job.

I already have given you the answer, it did not do the job. You have failed to read/apprehend any of my arguments above or to give a straight reaction on them,.

Just like you have fragmented my posts and argument independently. Yeah it is all Turkish orchestration, the Philharmonic Turca Satanica. Decieve yourself, it must be much better how it is now. Liberate yourself of your guilt sentiments instead of smearing it on others.

Pure sentimental vomit again. Will you post your honest opinion on the questions posed or will you not?

Yet even vomit overwhelmes your clouded mind.

I HAVE ALREADY AGREED WITH THE POINT OF THE ARTICLE, and not just but also even before you bring the article over here, i was the first to pursue the point of the article.

And this article is Greek in case you haven't noticed. We make moves toward friendship, but under no means will we suppress our History in order to make friends. You keep on pressing your denialism acceleratingly, you keep on using Greek sources and attitudes to prove your point about moving forward and you keep on denying the crimes of your pathetic regime.

And this time is the last i reply to your pitiful arguments. Next time i will write about the whole discussion, point by point, step by step, one by one, and their frequencies.

The attempt you make for friendship fails in all 3 neighbours (Albania, Macedonia and Turkey) because most of the people in Greece have a negative attitude towards these nationals because of their chauvinistic collective conscience which is fed by the education system. Liberate yourself from this lie.

I will say it again

You cant let it come through since that would disrupt your pseudo collective conscience imprinted on you to hate and fear the big bad Turk. Without that you fear to loose your Greekness. Let me tell you, your Greekness is already dead. That is why you insist on using Greek words, mumble the words of your automated chauvinist collective conscience. In fact your Greekness has never lived, it is based on the Turks as antagonists and the Greek as the protagonists. It has always been pixilation between the electrons of your clouded mind. Your Greekness is based on a lie to hate. First be at peace with yourself by releasing yourself from this lie. Not for me, a Turk, but for the sake of yourself.

Are you willing to make progress

Or rot in that national conscience of hate and fear that you are in.

[noemon]

Keep yourself repeating them just to prove what kind of troll you are.

The only troll in here is you for keeping on your personal attacks without even daring to address the questions of the discussion. You are a Turco similar to your compatriots, and you have failed in every single thread you have been confronted, be it Cyprus, be it Genocide, Pontos, Imvros, whatever...a living failure and an advocate and lawyer of murderers.

What assumptions, you wrote yourself that I was disrespecting the name ellas. Besides you kept nagging for a word that has meaning in English and you imagine as more approapiate

You are even incompatible with simple logic.

My offer to you was purely symbolic in order to save you from exterme ridiculation and humiliation. You rejected it and the rest is History. Now as a good girl, sit back relax and enjoy the ride. Its gonna be a long one.

What murderer, he crashed into another plane by his own error, it is called an accident.

If you read anything that is posted, and had the slightest will to logic, you wouldnt be arguing in favor of the murderers, but as illustrated already, you are incapable of.

You are not even capable of apprehending what is written, read.

Yes you did claim Kemal killed himself:
I think that the Turks in general have much more to feel pride about their Ottoman past than their Kemalist present, in more or less every aspect, both in the nationalistic domain as a Power to be reckoned but also as a government that made use of its resources(Ellines, Jews), rather than kill them at sight(Kemal)

You seriously believe that you are even able to prove the slightest of a point?

It is more than obvious that the Kemalist mentality is responsible for the Crimes because they all begun when this ideology begun. Would you like me to post the relative dates, as well?

I think you are evee smart to find them yourself.

However, i dont give a crap for minor points, i do not. I give a crap for the major points, which is the obvious denial of the crimes and celebration of the criminals, when you finally manage to accept them, then we can move on onto analysing the Kemalist mentality regime. Do not worry Turco, all in time, the test you have gone through has failed.

You have already fallen into a circular oblivion by trolling here phrasing the words deny over and over.

At least my parroting is in regards to something noble, the blood of my ancestors, your parroting, serves nothing. It is useless and unworthy.

When you act like a troll by resorting to compulsive accusations, the only thing you will get is vomit.

So, no reply, nothing, personal attacks is your only weapon left, isnt it? In this thread i made the mistake to lose my temper with your compatriots brilliant arguments, but dont worry this is the last time i give you space to manouvre.

What propaganda, the only propaganda is in your head, with your compulsive behaviour that proves nothign but the synchronisation on the collective conscieseness of bigotry and hate towards Turkey.

I will tell you for the last time. In here i am the only one that has made a move towards you people, my country has taken positive steps towards the fixing of hate-producing History, and that is evident since all the articles you have brought in here are all greek to make your point, and on the contrary to pursue the same denialism your Turkish society has taught and imprinted in your brain.

You can go on with your personal attacks, they only go to show your level of literacy.

And where is Ionia, it is in western Anatolia which is Turkish. Republic of Greece has nothing to do with Greek culture in Anatolia. The Greek national citizens who are from Anatolia are related, but not Greece. Republic of Greece has nothing to do with Anatolia. It is nothing but a fascist idea of your collective conscience, a remnant of the Megali Idea. If you want peace, let it go in your mind. Then you will be free and Greece will be in free and at peace with her neighbours.

WTF? Are you talking about, missie?

Wtf? The Greek culutre of anatolia belongs to the Greeks that produced it, not to the land and not to any Turco like yourselves. You have nothing to do with the Greeks of Anatolia, and on the contrary i have everything to do with them. I AM Them. And Anatolia is the term we the Yunanis(Ionians) gave to the Place. You can fool yourself that you are part of us, you simply prove the ultimate usuraption of our culture in order to uplift your existences in this sad country of yours.

And i am in Greece, because your destructive government ethnically cleansed us. All the Anatolian Culture belongs to US, because we produced it, its History is ours because we produced it, you are nothing but the ones who destroyed this culture and deleted its presense in the lands you conguered by force.

The "Megali idea" is your wild card up in the air when you have nothing to say? Foul assumptions are more than laughable, and continue to verify the intellectual bankrupcy.

These are not enough, missie, get it through your head.

If you wanted to have the anatolian culture piece of the pie you should have had integrated the producers of it, into your society, and verily claim its History, on the contrary you did exactly the opposite.

Who killed what, they were exchanged with the Turkish/muslim citizens in Greece.

I think i ought to refresh your memory:

The persecutions, massacres, expulsions, and death marches of the Asia Minor Greeks were renewed during the early 20th century by the Young Turk administration of the Ottoman Empire and during the subsequent revolution of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. The Pontic Greek population was the most severely affected; its misfortunes became known as the Pontic Greek Genocide.

The conditions of their expulsion and relocation were worsened by the fact that the vast majority of the refugees were women and children (aged under 15), since the male population was not allowed to leave Turkey, and was subjected to labour battalions. According to the statistics, 60%-73% of the refugees were women and children, while men constituted only the 30%, with 12% being incapable for work. In addition, the 1/3 of the refugee families did not have a surviving male member.

LINK

No I cant learn you anything because you because your mind is not capable of absorbing anything that contradicts the fact your conscience is based on bigotry and hate. You do nothing but repeat like a broken record just to show how hateful your mind has become.

My mind is my problem alone, not yours, you take care of your mind, and i will take care of mine.

If your excuse for continuing your denialist mentality is because the facts are coming from a bigot, then you are nothing but a bigot and a denialist.

I suggest you to read the facts and sources posted instead of reading what does not matter in none of the points raised.

You can keep on playing this game of yours, that i am the worst individual on the planet. I do not give a shit, your attacks are meaningless, completetly and they only verify tragecilaly the point of this discussion, and the rejection of the article you posted, in the beginning, that we should move forward, you have no intentions of moving forward, with compromize, you have no intentions of accepting the well-recorded crimes and come to terms with your bloody History, you have no intention on even imitating us Greeks as the articles verify, when we have proven beyond any doubt, that we are ready to move forward, but never on the expense of History. Never.

First you shall accept your crimes in order to prove that you have no intention for future repetition and then we shall all move forward to gether. Until then, keep on playing the card of the Greek bigot.

While the physical collapse of the junta as a government was immediately caused by the Cyprus debacle , its ideological collapse was triggered by the 1973 Athens Polytechnic uprising. The uprising at the Polytechneion was the event that discredited the military government most and acted as a key catalyst for its eventual demise by exposing the internal contradictions and stresses of the regime thus destroying the myth of the political cohesion of the junta and, therefore, irreparably damaging the political credibility of the "Ethnosotirios Epanastasis" and its message.

Listen missie, if you choose to neglect the point that is not my fault, there was a governemnt, no shit, MY POINT IS: there was total anarchy, a revolution had begun the previous year, and the whole country was in total chaos. If you want to look further go to the respective historical archives and check out what happened in between the Polytecheion event and the final collapse of the Junta.

Yeah the famous dolchstosslegende, there was a government. But please go ahead and fool yourselfs that the situation was abused.

You are the only one who has been fooling herself all this time in here. If you are unable to see this point, then you got to be totally illiterate. Ofc you abused the situation, and invaded 11 years after the supposing events that led to the invasion, and on the same year the revolution had begun in Ellas.

You are a smart girl, do the math yourself. If you want to keep on denying, do not worry there is plenty of sources that verify my point. All in time, now that i know exactly with what kind of people am dealing with in here, all will come in time.

Yes it is the sooner you get over this victim mentality the better. There is no difference between a dirty sheet and a dirtier sheet, they both dirty. Be in peace with your history if you want to make peace with your neighbour, let go of your hate and fear that is imprented into your collective conscience.

You better let go of this preacher mentality of yours, you are not my priest nor my psychologist. You better learn to stick on the topic, instead of playing the psychoanalyst in order to escape the crimes and become a lawyer of the criminals.

Repeat all you want.

Your failure to address, is further conclusion of your inability to address Historical facts.

What are you mumbling about, didn’t you justify in your post the killing if Turks and ethnically cleansing Greece of Turks and Albanians was justified because it was a war period.

Do you have any evidence missie? Or is this ad-hominem your only friend left?

When one fails to prove a point, one withdraws the argument.

Learn.

Dante is fiction, just as your collective conscience, the sooner you get rid of it, the better

The lawyers go even further than the criminals, even in fiction, you better start realizing which part you belong to.

Ofcourse it will fail, the lie in your be dissolved by none but you.

All your Cypriot threads are failures, and all the times confronted by greeks have all failed, now either acccept it, or keep on attacking personally the others and totally changing the discussion. And becoming the same bigot that you preach us.

There are hardly airlines flying straight over the Aegean. Both sides are jeopardizing the issue, don’t blame it on Turkey. Both Greece and Turkey are playing the game. Your government is guilty because it acts as if national airspace is violated and make show machoistic dogfight shows.

And unlike Turkish airforce who doesn’t apply FLIR protocols and Greek airforce actually does violate Turkish airspace:

Turkish air space violated by Greek jets
ANKARA, Turkey, May 17 (UPI) -- Two Greek military jets violated Turkish air space this week prompting protests from Turkey's government, the Turkish military said Thursday.
The Turkish General Staff said for the third time this week, a pair of Greek military jets entered Turkey's restricted air space without incident, The New Anatolian reported.
While Tuesday's incursion into Turkish air space by two Greek F-16s just north of Limnos Island lasted for only a minute, a statement from the General Staff said two similar incursions occurred a day earlier.
The military statement said Monday two incidents occurred where Greek planes entered Turkish air space without permission.
The New Anatolian said the most recent unauthorized incursion prompted the military to inform the Turkish Foreign Ministry about the incidents.

As you realize the article is clear only for a minute or so, in order for the dogfighting to commence, it means that your planes roam around the FIR, so long that it takes respectable time for the decision to be made, the pilot to get up, lift his ass, and try to take you out of the airspace before you collide with a commercial plane and jeopardize the lives of innocent civilians, this is following protocol, missie, and your pilots have a choice, the same way you have a choice all this time in here, they can get the fuck out without much effort, or they can sit there like assholes and play, one of them was a murderer and decided to throw his plane and kill the Greek. Bravo, and Hails to Mighty turkish Airforce, am sure you are all glad for killing the innocent infidel, for literally nothing!

I don’t want your apologize, not from a bigoted and hateful one like you. Besides you have already apologized enough for today.


Quote:
Give me official proof of ethnic cleansing of civilians.
And i will accept it, I am not a Turk, i repeat.

Yes you are, you are the same Turk that is in you bigoted hateful mind of yours.
And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you

Forget it you cant even apprehend what I am saying let alone understand my message.

Psychological coronas on the nth. Please continue, am actually enjoying this.

Your message that i messaged first in here is that all should move forward, to do that we have to make sure that the facts are protected in order not to be repeated, if you had the slightest of logic, you would have ended this story in here and gone by peacefully, but all my attempts with you, failed, simply because you have absolutely no difference with your compatriots.

Keep on playing Froyd, it is the least amusing.

All your saying here is your own bigoted mind at work not mine. I did not say anything about you weight with the Jews. Just like you have said countless of times you are comparing apples and oranges. Your nation has never been the victim of genocide. You are keen on playing the victim after your Megali Idea was shattered. And by referring to Hitler you act according to Godwin’s law.

Sure missie, whatever you say. You seem to forget a lot about the events mentioned, you do not like the terminology "genocide" because your government has taught you well there, well i dont give a shit of how you call it. Human life is the same everywhere, and numbers are not of any weight, the juice is the act committed, the persecuations of Turkey upon the Greek people is as much a fact as it is Hitler's persecutions to the Jews.

One in greater numbers, the other in smaller; but repetitious events. You think you can separate them because your sick mind has taught you that grievances differ, dont you?

No missie, crimes are crimes whatever semantics are attributed to them, and yes indeed the Pontians have been genocided, by your disgusting State, together with the Armenians.

What history, the fragmented and sentimentalized one from your collective conscience. I am at peace with my past, I don’t hate Greece or Greeks for what they did. Are you willing to become at peace with yours.

Are you willing to make progress

Or rot in that national conscience of hate and fear that you are in.

You have nothing to hate the Greeks for, absolutely nothing.

Not only that, but you settled the homes that we left behind when your family came from the Caucasus down in Cappadokia.

And i do not hate the Turks either missie, the only thing i want from the Turks is to ackwnoledge, one simple ackwnoldement for the TRUE events that have taken place the past century, in order to prove with actions that they are willing to move forward, I DONT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT REPARATIONS OR WHATEVER, and other minor idiocies the beggars want to, simple acknowledgement at least by one single moderate Turco, ackwnoledgement of the sourced true events, in order to be able to discuss freely without anything stopping the integration between the people, if you applied the psychology you have been applying on my person all this time, you would have simply given your honest opinion, and this discussion would have ended, because you cannot escape from the TRUTH, missie, no matter what excuse you invent.

Read again before you make assumptions.

It is indeed very funny of you quoting Greek articles, that prove that the Greeks are discussing the Issue at hand and make efforts to build a bridge, do you have a relative Turkish article, or do you have an article 16 that denigrates Turkishness?

Before you use 2 words out of the pool of information to prove you bigotted point about the Greeks and their supposing hate, you better read exactly what is the point of the article, both this one, and the OP one. And realize that we as Greeks take initiative to fix these problems, on the contrary YOU not only deny the crimes, but you continue throwing the vomit up in the air, and accuse us of whatever comes to mind, in order to escape, the unescapable.

Good for you with your collectivized conscience, know you can you having the dirt ammo to confirm your bigoted and hateful reality.

You are the proof yourself of propaganda, sadly you cant recognize it.

Sadly you fail to recognize your own position as well.

You cant let it come through since that would disrupt your pseudo collective conscience imprinted on you to hate and fear the big bad Turk. Without that you fear to loose your Greekness. Let me tell you, your Greekness is already dead. That is why you insist on using Greek words, mumble the words of your automated chauvinist collective conscience. In fact your Greekness has never lived, it is based on the Turks as antagonists and the Greek as the protagonists. It has always been pixilation between the electrons of your clouded mind. Your Greekness is based on a lie to hate. First be at peace with yourself by releasing yourself from this lie. Not for me, a Turk, but for the sake of yourself.

Now you are only dragging yourself further inside the rabbits hole, by even denying my Greekness, you have been taught and trained greatly in your fascist State. Well done missie, you have verified every single point that i have made in regards to your education and culture.

You are not discussing anything you are processing some words out of your collectivized conscience.

This is the 7 th in this post or 50 th time in total that you repeat this phrase in here, are you a parrot? And insignificant parrotism, pure personal attacking.

You are seeking for a mental masturbation. Dont be lazy my opinions are written all over, read it yourself.

The question is when will you come out of your collective conscience.

Nothing comes through in the propagated mind, until it realizes itself.

I already have given you the answer, it did not do the job. You have failed to read/apprehend any of my arguments above or to give a straight reaction on them,.

Yet even vomit overwhelmes your clouded mind.

Further parroting no reply and none at all.

I am very proud of you, you have totally verified everything posted, every single thing.
And now you will further prove your attitude in regards to the well known, "the enemy of the enemy is my friend" and follow both Fyromaniacs and Albanians into the oblivion:

The attempt you make for friendship fails in all 3 neighbours (Albania, Macedonia and Turkey) because most of the people in Greece have a negative attitude towards these nationals because of their chauvinistic collective conscience which is fed by the education system. Liberate yourself from this lie.

I will say it again

You cant let it come through since that would disrupt your pseudo collective conscience imprinted on you to hate and fear the big bad Turk. Without that you fear to loose your Greekness. Let me tell you, your Greekness is already dead. That is why you insist on using Greek words, mumble the words of your automated chauvinist collective conscience. In fact your Greekness has never lived, it is based on the Turks as antagonists and the Greek as the protagonists. It has always been pixilation between the electrons of your clouded mind. Your Greekness is based on a lie to hate. First be at peace with yourself by releasing yourself from this lie. Not for me, a Turk, but for the sake of yourself.

Are you willing to make progress

Or rot in that national conscience of hate and fear that you are in.

When all these puppets of yours, come to terms with themselves, including you that you are ready to usurp every thing related to Greece in order not to feel inferior as Humans that you have added nothing in the mental development of this particular area, you will become able to teach and show off your interestingly verifiably bigotted views on the Ellines and your real inferiority complexes in regards to US Ellin.

Until then, i am ultimately sorry for your being with all the sincerety that can be accompanied, i wish you well, and i tell you as my final words to you that:

OLA EDO PLIRONON TE.

And finally i urge you to listen to this song and find a translator to translate it for you:

Stou Aiwna to Feygio-To the century's Turn

It can only do good to your totalitarian mentality and braiwashed mind. Until our next meeting you can keep on reading the masterpieces of Seferis and Kazantzakis, and realize the Human pain caused and expressed by the most beautiful words on the planet, the Ellinic, you might eventually free yourself from the chains that your disgusting regime has binded you with.

NIPSONANOMIMATAMIMONANOPSIN

[Cid]

The only troll in here is you for keeping on your personal attacks without even daring to address the questions of the discussion. You are a Turco similar to your compatriots, and you have failed in every single thread you have been confronted, be it Cyprus, be it Genocide, Pontos, Imvros, whatever...a living failure and an advocate and lawyer of murderers.

Keep trolling spawning the product of your collective chauvinist conscience, keep throwing the dirt for your mental masturbation just to prove your clouded mind you are right to hate and fear.

You are even incompatible with simple logic.
My offer to you was purely symbolic in order to save you from exterme ridicualtion and humiliation. You rejected it and the rest is History. Now as a good girl, sit back relax and enjoy the ride. its gonna be a long one.

What humiliation, what ridicule. Greek is a perfectly normal word, unless you know it only as an adjective for a position.

What murderer, he crashed into another plane by his own error, it is called an accident.


If you read anything that is posted, and had the slightest will to logic, you wouldnt be arguing in favor of the murderers, but as illustrated already, you are incapable of.

Oh now it is plural, keep fooling yourself about murder(ers). Keep deceiving yourself to live up to the hate and fear of your mind.

I verified it when i posted my Pogrom sources. I didnt say Kemal himself, but the Kemalist regime which is the current and the past century's Turkish regime. Is it true, YES IT IS.

Yes you did claim Kemal killed himself:

I think that the Turks in general have much more to feel pride about their Ottoman past than their Kemalist present, in more or less every aspect, both in the nationalistic domain as a Power to be reckoned but also as a government that made use of its resources(Ellines, Jews), rather than kill them at sight(Kemal)

You seriously believe that you are ven able to prove the slightest of a point?

It is more than pobvious that the Kemalist mentality is responsible for the Crimes because they all begun whe n theis ideology begun. Would you like me to post the relative dates, as well?

Dont change the subject and use it as excuse to spawn your bigotry, accept your lie.

At least my parroting is in regards to something noble, the blood of my ancestors, your parroting, serves nothing. It is useless and unworthy.

Once again a fine example of your bigotry. Your chauvinist collective conscience must sure sound noble, having penetrated into your head so deep and soiled your mind to the last drop. Like I said make peace with yourself, liberate yourself from the lie, there is nothing more noble about you then neighbours.

I will tell you for the last time. In here i am the only one that has made a move towards you people, my country has taken positive steps towards the fixing of hate-producing History, and that is evident since all the article you have brought in here are all greek, to make your point, and on the contrary to pursue the same denialism your Turkish society has taught and imprinted in your brain.

There are 2 articles here concerning the huge lacking and that many Greeks have been taught to fear and hate in the education system. The first one Tourkokratia is not written by a Greek but by David Brewer, the second one even mentions a step back in a positive reform because of large public outcry. If you are going to make excuses with that the articles reflect progress, you are incapable of absorbing anything but the collective conscience that penetrated into your head.

You can go on with your personal attacks, they only go to show your level of literacy.

Seriously you believe I am a female, your sexist assumptions are self-reflective.


Quote:
And where is Ionia, it is in western Anatolia which is Turkish. Republic of Greece has nothing to do with Greek culture in Anatolia. The Greek national citizens who are from Anatolia are related, but not Greece. Republic of Greece has nothing to do with Anatolia. It is nothing but a fascist idea of your collective conscience, a remnant of the Megali Idea. If you want peace, let it go in your mind. Then you will be free and Greece will be in free and at peace with her neighbours.

WTF? Are you talking about, missie?

Wtf? The Greek culutre of anatolia belongs to the Greeks that produced it, not to the land and not to any Turco like yourselves. You have nothing to od with the Greeks of anatolia, and on the contrary i have eb=verything to do with them. I AM Them.

And i am in Greece, because your destructive government ethnically cleansed us. All the Anatolian Culture belongs to US, because we produced it, its History is ours because we produced it, you are nothing but the ones who destroyed this culture and deleted its presense in the lands you conguered by force.


The Megali idea is your wild card up in the air when you have nothing to say?

These are not enpough, missie, get it through your head.

You are not them, you are a citizen of Greece get over it. All the culture of Anatolia belongs to Turkey, including the Greek one. Greeks who were born in Anatolia may have sentimental relations with it, but it has nothing to do with Republic of Greece. The sooner you realize the sooner you can be at peace with yourself, liberate the occupation of your mind from the true regime.

I think i ought to refresh your memory:

The conditions of their expulsion and relocation were worsened by the fact that the vast majority of the refugees were women and children (aged under 15), since the male population was not allowed to leave Turkey, and was subjected to labour battalions. According to the statistics, 60%-73% of the refugees were women and children, while men constituted only the 30%, with 12% being incapable for work. In addition, the 1/3 of the refugee families did not have a surviving male member.

Yeah talk about misfortune, as if the Greek army didnt had her share in it, as if the Pontian uprisings didnt start because of the Megali Idea and the Lebensraum you wanted to create in the east. The misfortune of the Anatolia Greeks is reaction of the Fascist ideology of the Greek state itself, to unite the Greeks. Yet you are keen on forgetting it and seek the answer elsewhere.
On the Greeks' own responsibility for their misfortunes, he quoted approvingly an old Cretan saying: "The fate every people makes for itself, and the things its own madness does to it, are not things done by its enemies."

my mind is my problem alone, not yours, you take care of your mind, and i will take care of mine.

Your mind is a concern because you use it to spawn hate and bigoted views allover.

You can keep on playing this game of yours, that i am the worst individual on te planet. I do not give a shit, your attacks are meaningless, completetly and they only evrify tragecilaly the point of this discussion, and the rejection of the article you posted, in the beginning, that we should move forward, you have no intentions of moving forward, with compromize, you have no intentions on accepting the well-recorded crimes and come to terms with your bloody History, you have no intention one ven imitating us Greeks, when we have proven beyond any doubt, that we are ready to move forward, but never on the expense of History. Never.

You are not the worst individual, just a compulsive and bigoted. You cant move forward if you dont get rid of the bigotry that propels you. The hate and fear is artificial, it is splinter in your mind. It is the chauvinist collective conscience imprinted on you that tells you to hate and fear. Without that you fear to loose your Greekness. Let me tell you, your Greekness is already dead, if you let the chauvinist collective conscience take you over. That is why you insist on using Greek words, mumble the words of your automated mind. There are no antagonists no protagonists, this is the real world not a drama. Liberate yourself from the collective conscience that imprented the Turk as a boogeyman. This Greekness that has been taught to you is based on a lie to hate. Be a free man, it may scare you, buy once you have taken the step, a world of weight will fall from your shoulders and you can embrace your neighbours and cherish the true meaning of freedom. First be at peace with yourself by releasing yourself from this lie.

Take the step, liberate yourself

Or you will rot in the collective conscience of hate and fear.

First you shall accept your crimes in order to prove that you have no intention for future repetition and then we shall all move forward to gether. Until then, keep on playing the card of the Greek bigot.

You see you do fear, but when will you get it to your passive head that fear is fictional, it is imprinted into your mind by the collective conscience. No one can not make peace with you, if you are not at peace with yourself. It has intoxicate your body to the very bones you are proud of, it has stunned your logic incapable of mental motion.
Liberate yourself from hate and fear and be free.
Or be consumed by the very thing you hate, and become the Turk of your fears.

Listen missie, if you choose to neglect the point that is not my fault, there was a governemnt, no shit, MY POINT IS: there was total anarchy, a revolution had begun the previous year, and the whole country was in total chaos. If you want to look further go to the respective historical archives and check out what happened in between the Polytecheion event and the final collapse of the Junta.

Your first claiming was:

Your Cyprus invasion, which supposedly was an exercise, when there was no government in office in Ellas

Your first claiming was there was no government at all. Now you accept there was but downplay its importance. That is good, excellent. Your are adjusting your statements and that shows hope to liberate you from the chauvinist collective conscience that has imprinted hate and fear into your mind.

Yeah the famous dolchstosslegende, there was a government. But please go ahead and fool yourselfs that the situation was abused.


You are the only who has been fooling itself all this time in here. If you are unablew to see this point, then you got to be totally illiterate. Ofc you abused the situation, and invaded 11 years after the supposing events that led to the inavsion, and the same year the revolution begun in Ellas.

You are a smart girl, do the math yourself. If you want to keep on denying, do not worry there is plenty of sources that verify my point. All in time, now that i know exactly with what kind of people am dealing with in here, all will come in time.

The authentic fake must be very appealing. But you will only fool yourself. It will corrupt your mind even further.

Yes it is the sooner you get over this victim mentality the better. There is no difference between a dirty sheet and a dirtier sheet, they both dirty. Be in peace with your history if you want to make peace with your neighbour, let go of your hate and fear that is imprented into your collective conscience.

You better let go of this preacher mentality of yours, you are not my preist nor my psychologist. You better learn to stick on the topic, instead of playing the psychoanalyst in order to escape the crimes and become a lawyer of the criminals.

Like I said the sooner you get over this victim mentality the better. You soul screams liberate me from this chauvinist collective conscience, but the machine propels you differently. Yoga wont help you and forum discussions/dialogue will fail. You can only liberate yourself, one day you will understand.

Your failure to address, is further conclusion of your inability to address Historical facts.

First you must uncover the history of your own, beneath the curtains of the theater of the collective conscience. Unraveled and awe only then new roads will open for you, to address others.

What are you mumbling about, didn’t you justify in your post the killing if Turks and ethnically cleansing Greece of Turks and Albanians was justified because it was a war period.

Do you have any evidence missie? Or is this ad-hominem your only friend left?

You must uncover history own your own initiative. Only then you can except and cherish it.
Take example of Veremis:
a well-known Greek intellectual, talked more about the portrayal of Turks as what he characterized as "monsters," noting "If all Turks were monsters, monsters kill eachother. And the Ottoman empire lived on for hundreds of years." Veremis also cast light on Greek failure to discuss their own warfare, talking about the Greek invasion of Tripoli and how the city was reduced to rubble "There are monsters everywhere. Are we forgetting what we did? Why don't we talk about the excesses we carried out in Asia Minor?"

Dante is fiction, just as your collective conscience, the sooner you get rid of it, the better

The lawyers go even further than the criminals, even in fiction, you better start realizing which part you belong to.

I dont care if I end in this fictional hell of yours among the fictional criminals. I rather be in the hell of a free mind then in the heaven of a mind subjugated by the chauvinist collective conscience.

All your Cypriot thread are failures, and all the times confrointed by greeks have all failed, now either acccept it, or keep on attacking personally the others and totally changing the discussion.

There is nothing to accept but the mental masturbation in your head.

Turkish air space violated by Greek jets
ANKARA, Turkey, May 17 (UPI) -- Two Greek military jets violated Turkish air space this week prompting protests from Turkey's government, the Turkish military said Thursday.
The Turkish General Staff said for the third time this week, a pair of Greek military jets entered Turkey's restricted air space without incident, The New Anatolian reported.
While Tuesday's incursion into Turkish air space by two Greek F-16s just north of Limnos Island lasted for only a minute, a statement from the General Staff said two similar incursions occurred a day earlier.
The military statement said Monday two incidents occurred where Greek planes entered Turkish air space without permission.
The New Anatolian said the most recent unauthorized incursion prompted the military to inform the Turkish Foreign Ministry about the incidents.

As you realize the article is clear only for a minute or so, in order for the dogfighting to commence, it means that your planes roam around the FIR, so long that it takes for the decision to being made, the pilot to get up, lift his ass, and try to take you out of the airspace before you collide with a commercial plane and jeopradize the lives of innocent civilians, this is following protocol, missie, and ypour pilots have a choice, the same way you have a choice all this time in here, they can get the fuck out without much effort, or they can sit there like assholes and play, one of them was a murderer and decided to throw his plane and kill the Greek. Bravo, and Hails to Mighty turkish Airforce, am sure you are all glad for killing the i nnocent infidel for literally nothing.

Dont victim, there is no moral ground here. It is all political incompetence. If the Greek government had any moral high ground they wouldnt be violating Turkish airspace, they woudnt be sending fighterjets to dogfight. The military observers wouldnt praise these dogfights as realistic exercise. The Greek government would either go to court or settle the FIR matter by bilateral manners. Instead they play the game in equal matter. Your pilots death is the result of the incompetence of the Greek government. Blame them and if you are going to cheer for the crash, cheer for the incompetent dead pilot who created the crash.

I don’t want your apologize, not from a bigoted and hateful one like you. Besides you have already apologized enough for today.

Psychological coronas on the nth. Please continue, am actually enjoying this.

Your message that i messaged first in here is that all should move forward, to do that we have to make sure that the facts are protected in order not to be repeated, if you had the slightest of logic, you would have ended this story in here and gone by peacefully, but all my attempts with you, failed, simply because you have absolutely no difference with your compatriots.

keep on playing Froyd, it is the least amusing.

Yes amusing isnt it, it is natural reaction when confronted about the state of your mind. An act of despair, what else is there but to laugh at your failure.


Quote:

All your saying here is your own bigoted mind at work not mine. I did not say anything about you weight with the Jews. Just like you have said countless of times you are comparing apples and oranges. Your nation has never been the victim of genocide. You are keen on playing the victim after your Megali Idea was shattered. And by referring to Hitler you act according to Godwin’s law.

Sure missie, whatever you say. Youseem to forget a lot about the vents mentioned, you do not like the terminology genocide because your government has taught you well there, well i dont give a shit of how you call it. Human life is the same everywhere, and numbers are not of any weight, the juice is the act committed, the persecuations of Turkeu upon the Greek people is as much a fact as it Hitlers genocide to the Jews.


One in gerater numbers, the other in smaller but repetitious events. Y0ou think you can separate them because your sick mind has taught you that grievances differ, dont you?

No missie, crimes are crimes whatever semantics are attributed to them, and yes indeed the Pontians have been genocided, by your disgusting State, together with the Armenians.

You reference and comparison with Hitler is nothing but mental masturbation, to make yourself convinced of the tragedy. Accept the true meaning of the tragedy, misfortune by your own fault. The Megali Idea is what created the Pontian uprising and exodus. Blame yourself instead of hating others. The refernce with Germany is pathetic, there was no Jewish army occupying western Germany, there was no massive Jewish armed rebellion, yet you compare the Pontians to Armenians or Jews. You disrespect the Pontians yourself, unwilling to embrace their history in itself. Only to link it with Armenian and Jews. You are actually the one who thinks of Pontians less then Armenians or Jews.

What history, the fragmented and sentimentalized one from your collective conscience. I am at peace with my past, I don’t hate Greece or Greeks for what they did. Are you willing to become at peace with yours.

Are you willing to make progress

Or rot in that national conscience of hate and fear that you are in.

You have nothing to hate the Greeks for, absolutely nothing.

Not only but you settled the homes that we left behind when your family came from the Caucasus down in Cappadokia.

What you believe you can lecture me about my families history. My family didnt settle in any of “your” homes, and there aren’t any in the villages of my families. My mothers family are from Cappadocia itself. My fathers family migrated from the Caucasus during the Causasian wars and the advancement of the Russian army in the 19th century. Do I hate Russians, no because it would artificial and do unjust for myself. I am at peace with my history. Neither do I hate Greeks, because there is no reason to hate. You do hate though. You are not at peace with yourself and you think it is because of the Turks. You must make peace with yourself.

And i don not hate the Turks either missie, the only thing i want from the Turks is to acknwoledge, one simple ackwoldement for th e TRUE events that have taken place the past century, in order to prove with actions that they are willing to move forward, I DONT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT REPARATIONS OR WHATEVER, other the beggars want to, simple acknowledgement, of the sourced true events, in order to be able to discuss freely without anything stopping integration between the people, if you applied the psychology you ahve been applying on my eprson all this time, you would have simply given your honest opinion, and this discussion would have ended, because you acnnot escape from the TRUTH, missie, no amtter what excuse you invent.

Like I said you must make peace with yourself. Acknowledgement means nothing, the void in you soul is caused by your the hate and fear in your mind, not by others.

It is indeed very funny of you quoting Greek articles, that prove that the Greeks are discussing the Issue at hand and make efforts to build a bridge, do you have a relative Turksih article, or do you have an article 16 that denigrates Turkishness?

There are tones of articles that discuss the issues and promote building bridges. You just have to look for them.

Before you use 2 words out of the pool of information to prove you bigotted point aboiut the Greeks and their supposing hate, you better read exactly what is the point of the article, both this one, and the OP one. And realize that we as Greeks take initiative to fic these problems, on the contrary YOU not only deny the crimes, but you continue throwing the vomit up in the air, and acuse us of whatever comes to mind, in order to escape, the unescapable.

You are indeed a parrot, look at yourself for sec. These articles point out a fault in the Greek education system and the Greek collective conscience of a biased attitude of fear and hate towards Turks. One is written by an English person the other article actually showing steps were taken backwards. And what do you do, you use it as argument that Greeks are building bridges of friendship but the Turks do nothing. You are extensively clouded by fear and hate of your chauvinistic collective conscience, that you use even the articles as dirt to throw on the Turk of your bigoted mind.

now you are only dragging yourself further inside the rabbits hole, by even denying my Greekness, you have been taught and trianed greatly in your fascists State. Well done missie, you have verified every single poiint that i have made in regards to your education and culture.

I am not denying your ethnic Greekness, I am denying your intellectual Greekness. I will say it again:
You cant let it come through since that would disrupt your collective conscience imprinted on you to hate and fear the Turk. Without that, you fear to loose your ethnic Greekness. Let me tell you, by trying to preserve you ethnic Greekness according to pseudo standards, you lost your intellectual Greekness, it is dead. That is why you insist on using Greek words, mumble the words of your automated chauvinist collective conscience. Your Greekness is based on a lie to hate. First be at peace with yourself by releasing yourself from this lie.

This is the 7 th time you repeat this phrase in here, are youa parrot?

You are incapable of argumentation since your collective conscience has already determind the facts. You are incapable of description aside. Your collective conscience does it for you as murderers, fascists, genocide, invasion, violation.
Parrots only understand parrots. Your head is heavily bombarded and penetrated by the chauvinist collective conscience which has soiled your mind with seeds of hate and fear. Self realization is the only way, but to achieve that repetition is needed.

I am very proud of you, you have totally verified everything posted, every single thing.
And now you will further prove your attitude in reagrds to the well know, the enemy of the nemy id my friend and follow both Fyromaniacs and Albanians into the oblivion:

I have never stated Albanians and Macedonians are my friends, nor are do I factually have close Albanian or Macedonian friends. I just observe how the your collective conscience identifies them also as your antagonists and even censors the name Macedonian. True regime is in your head, which cant even accept names.

When all these puppets of yours, come to terms with themselves and including you that you are ready to usurp every thing related to Greece in order not to feel inferior as HUmans that you have added nothing in the mental development of this particular area, you will become able to teach and show off your ingterestingly bigotted views on the Ellines.
Until then, i am ultimately sorry for your being with all the sincerety that can be accompanied, i wish you well, and i tell you as my final words to you that:

I have no bigoted views on Greeks, I have Greek friends and love them as any other friends. I do not look at Greeks as being inferior or superior, can you say that for yourself. Your writings have proven you cant, your collective conscience doesn’t approve of this. You view Greeks as higher then others. By propagating to you that Turks feel inferior, your collective conscience is telling your mind the lie that Greeks are superior. When will you liberate yourself from the bigotry for Turks. Only then can you feel true remorse, true pity. You will realize there is non but yourself to pity and you will be free.

I will say it again

Are you willing to make progress
Or rot in that collective conscience of hate and fear that you are in.

It can only do good to your totalitarian mentality and braiwashed mind. Until our next meeting you can keep on reading the masterpieces of Seferis and Kazantzakis, and realize the Human pain caused and expressed by the most beautiful words on the planet, the Ellinic, you might eventually free yourself from the chains that your disgusting regime has binded you with.

All languages in the world are beautiful. Your fascist ideas about Greek being the uber-language is absurd. There is no regime but the one of the chauvinistic collective conscience in your head.

Until then, i am ultimately sorry for your being with all the sincerety that can be accompanied, i wish you well, and i tell you as my final words to you that:

OLA EDO PLIRONON TE.

Hopefully for you the final word will be in your head liberating your mind from the regime of the chauvinistic collective conscience echoing the words Nosce te ipsum. Or else you will be consumed by that hate and fear, rottening not only your body but your soul elsewell.

[noemon]

All your parroting summary:

Like I said you must make peace with yourself. Acknowledgement means nothing, the void in you soul is caused by your the hate and fear in your mind, not by others.

You keep on mentioning this, when i even answered your question, with all the sincerity that a person can offer.

On the contrary the only thing you have aimed is to evade the subject and provide artificial evidence that we are some brainwashed individuals and we have brainwashed-hateful History, yet you have not even come close to give us a specific event, the same way that i have supplied sourced specific events that verify my points directly through the reality of the events. The only you have given is a reference that there is hate in our education but no reference on where is this error in our education -where is it? Show us?

Or better show us where is any of what i have said in here a lie?

If the events committed as sourced are hateful and despicable it is not my fault nor my countrys, but specifically those individuals that deny them, not even those that committed them anymore, those have already been punished in the other world, but specifically those that deny them because it is number one indicator there they are the same and prepared for future repetition.

Show us dear, where we have denied our crimes?

What is UNTRUE from the events sourced? Specify with evidence!

Show US. with direct evidence, not with Greek parrots that speak from their ass and offer no specific example to make themselves clear. But Aorist=undefined.

It is a fashion in the Balkans to play with Greek History.

And you have verified this as well, when you still consider the Ionian Culture part of Turkey, people just listen and laugh.

Without that, you fear to loose your ethnic Greekness.

I do not fear anything related to Turkey dear Turco, especially myself a paternal Maniot who was never taxed by your beings. No matter the 400 years of the others. My flag in the revolution wrote Victory or Death, not "Freedom or Death" as the other Greeks have it. Get it dear Turco? Mani had its freedom. The only thing i fear is the act of War, and that is not because i fear death, but i only fear for my surroundings(read family).

The WAR fuckers down here is you and Isreal.

So, you shall be treated exactly like that. Not with telling you that is OK, nothing happened. You are good boys, and then give you a kiss goodnight.

Every single War fucker shall be treated like a war fucker=CRIMINAL. Until one accepts the crimes. That is the way of society and that is the first step to becoming part of a united Europe where every single one, even the Catholic church has offered all the relative apologies. And over and done with it. This is not a request by Europe, this is pre-requisite. You can always choose Sarkozy politics, and totally get the fuck out of our backs.

And also my maternal name is Phillipidis(Pontiac). Ask anything about the Pontians and the Smyrniots(read Ionians). I am from both.

Their History shall not be usurped.

State your case about Ionian and Pontian Culture being Turkish.

State it.

You claimed it, now prove it.

I'll be very glad to sit and watch you.

Hopefully for you the final word will be in your head liberating your mind from the regime of the chauvinistic collective conscience echoing the words Nosce te ipsum. Or else you will be consumed by that hate and fear, rottening not only your body but your soul elsewell.

Whatever the case dear, the echo travels in all ways and directions.

And something else, me regarding you a fem. was because of your avatar.

I have not seen any material to provide me with the sex, and in this world, when there is no such information one only guesses. I guess i was wrong. Will you hold me blame worthy when it is you that goes by a feminine avatar for ever?

As for the rest of psychological crap you can shove them up your ass. One speaks only for thyself.

And dude quit the star wars.. "collective conscience" trumpet.

If one measures its frequency in the last post alone, one shall become a parrot in any way.

[Cid]

All your parroting summary:

Like I said you must make peace with yourself. Acknowledgement means nothing, the void in you soul is caused by your the hate and fear in your mind, not by others.

Very good there is some progress. Now learn from it, practice it.

You keep on mentioning this, when i even answered your question, with all the sincerity that a person can offer.

You have answered nothing, you have thrown dirt to seek recognition for the hate and fear has soiled your mind by the collective conscience. A couple of sentences ago you were begging for an answer how to react, because the bigoted mind is telling you to react. Your tormented state about Greek Anatolian history is artificial, nothing but an excuse to hate and fear.

On the contrary the only thing you have aimed is to evade the subject and provide artificial evidence that we are some brainwashed individuals and we have brainwashed-hateful History, yet you have not even come close to give us a specific event, the same way that i have supplied sourced specific events that verify my points directly through the reality of the events. The only you have given is a reference that there is hate in our education but no reference on where is this error in our education -where is it? Show us?

It is not evasion, this is the essence of your torment, not some recognition by others for mental masturbation, but realization of your shortcomings, of the lie in you. Your soul will be liberated only if you recognize the regime in your head. It is deluding you, that hate and fear are justified, that the conspiring and inferior nature of the neighbours are a reality.

Or better show us where is any of what i have said in here a lie?

The lie is in you, unravel it.

If the events committed as sourced are hateful and despicable it is not my fault nor my countrys, but specifically those individuals that deny them, not even those that committed them anymore, those have already been punished in the other world, but specifically those that deny them because it is number one indicator there they are the same and prepared for future repetition.

So if those who are guilty are paying for the crimes in hell, why do you feel this void in you about the history and current situation. Why do you still hate and fear, is it because what has happened according to you is not recognized on the other side of the Aegean. No it is because recognition relates not to what has happened in the world, but what is happening in your head. The collective conscience is motioning you to seek recognition of the hate and fear that that torments your mind and being. It motions you to confront your antagonist so that the hate and fear is justified. Because if your hate and fear is not justified, you minds and beings torment is all in vain. The collective conscious is self sufficient.

Show us dear, where we have denied our crimes?

You are talking in plural again, it reflects the parasitic nature of the collective conscience that is imprinted on you. You refer to him not only unconsciously, but also in your actions when writing. There is no emotion from history no guilt from history, you must uncover the lie in you so that you can free yourself from the hate and fear that has soiled your mind. The answer is in you to save yourself and be at peace, not in mine recognition or by hating/fearing me or that what categorizes me, what you describe as Turco.

Show US. with direct evidence, not with Greek parrots that speak from their ass and offer no specific example to make themselves clear. But Aorist=undefined.

Again plural, the collective consciousness has gotten you bad, see through the lie. There is no us, there is only you and the collective consciousness in you.

It is a fashion in the Balkans to play with Greek History.

An other spawning of the collective conscience. The Balkans are not at conflict with Greece and do not want Greek history. The collective conscience makes you believe that.

And you have verified this as well, when you still consider the Ionian Culture part of Turkey, people just listen and laugh.

Again a plural indication, other peoples laughter verifies the truth in your soiled mind. I see, while arguing with me verifies justification for your hate and fear.

I do not fear anything related to Turkey dear Turco, especially myself a paternal Maniot who was never taxed by your beings. No matter the 400 years of the others. My flag in the revolution wrote Victory or Death, not "Freedom or Death" as the other Greeks have it. Get it dear Turco? Mani had its freedom. The only thing i fear is the act of War, and that is not because i fear death, but i only fear for my surroundings(read family).

With whom you identify means little, you could have been Chinese or Brazilian for that matter. The collective conscience that spawns fear and hate is what matters. Your chauvinisit ramblings does not concern your collective conscience, it could be any other. The only thing it matters is that it generates and motions hate and fear in you.

The WAR fuckers down here is you and Isreal.

The real war is in your, acknowledge it, fight against the hate and fear that created it.

So, you shall be treated exactly like that. Not with telling you that is OK, nothing happened. You are good boys, and then give you a kiss goodnight.

That is imaginary, only some will snap by the collective conscience. Most will be consumed by the hate and fear it spawns and their soul will rot from within.

Every single War fucker shall be treated like a war fucker=CRIMINAL. Until one accepts the crimes. That is the way of society and that is the first step to becoming part of a united Europe where every single one, even the Catholic church has offered all the relative apologies. And over and done with it. This is not a request by Europe, this is pre-requisite. You can always choose Sarkozy politics, and totally get the fuck out of our backs.

The hate and fear that the collective conscience has spawned and soiled your mind and soul with shall not be cured by starting a killing spree. You can only cure it, by cleansing yourself. Liberate the mind that is enslaved to the regime of the collective conscience.

And also my maternal name is Phillipidis(Pontiac). Ask anything about the Pontians and the Smyrniots(read Ionians). I am from both.

Their History shall not be usurped.

State your case about Ionian and Pontian Culture being Turkish.

State it.

I have already stated it twice, stating it is only mental masturbation for you to evade factual circumstances and use the statement to justify hate and fear that has soiled your soul.

You claimed it, now prove it.

There is nothing to prove but in your mind. The factual circumstances of Ege and Karadeniz being part of the Turkish republic is used by the collective conscience in you as legitimization for the hate and fear that has soiled your mind

Whatever the case dear, the echo travels in all ways and directions.

Yet my words echo in your mind against the walls of the collective conscience and make you aware of the true torment of your soul. This is why you are keen on discussing with me and...

I'll be very glad to sit and watch you.

sitting and watching my actions.

And something else, me regarding you a fem. was because of your avatar.

I have not seen any material to provide me with the sex, and in this world, when there is no such information one only guesses. I guess i was wrong. Will you hold me blame worthy when it is you that goes by a feminine avatar for ever?

You see in the same manner you abused to female avatar to call me girlie, the collective conscience makes you abuse the environment to spawn hate and fear and soil your mind with it.


Again I tell you,
The collective conscience is motioning you to seek recognition of the hate and fear that that torments your mind and being. It motions you to confront your antagonist so that the hate and fear is justified. Because if your hate and fear is not justified, you minds and beings torment is all in vain. The collective conscious is self sufficient. Liberate yourself, use the mirror of God, because if you cant yourself, there is none else that can help you.

[noemon]

No more arguing(ramblings) with me, from now on only sources speak:

You have been classified as unworthy for dialogue.

Begin with this and when you 're done, there is thousands more coming:

Background Paper on the Pontian Genocide

By Akis Haralabopoulos akis@pronet.net.au

Pontus means "sea" in Greek and is located in the south-eastern littoral of the Black Sea. Its connection with Hellenism stretches back to pre-historic times to the legends of Jason and the Argonauts quest for the Golden Fleece and to Heracles obtaining the Amazon Queen's girdle. The coastal region was colonised by the Ionians, especially the city of Miletus which founded Sinope (785 BC), Trapezunta (756 BC) and the numerous other cities along the coast from Heracleia to Discurias in the Caucasus. The Hinterland was gradually Hellenised and this was completed after Alexander's conquests. Its contribution to Hellenism in those 2800 years has been enormous: Diogenes hailed from Sinope and Strabo from Amaseia, it was here that Xenophon found a safe haven, that the great Comneni dynasty reigned, the home of Cardinal Bessarion and the Hypsilandis family; it was also the last Greek territory to fall to the Turks (in 1461). Many famous churches, monasteries and schools are a testament to the resilience of Hellenism. The Pontians are a distinct Greek people with their own dialect, dances, songs and theatre.

For the Pontian Greeks all ended in tragedy in the years 1914-22. Of the 700,000 Greeks living in Pontus in 1914, 300,000 were killed as a result of Turkish government policy and the remainder became refugees. Three millenia of the Greek presence was wiped out by a deliberate policy of creating a Turkey for the Turks. The Pontian people were denied the right to exist, the right of respect for their national and cultural identity, and the right to remain on land they had lived on for countless generations.

The turning point in the treatment of Greeks in Turkey was the alliance between Germany and the Sultan that commenced after the Treaty of Berlin 1878. Germany regarded Anglo French protection of Christians as an obstacle to its interests and convinced the Turkish authorities that the Greeks were working for the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. Germany opened the Berlin Academy to Turkish military officers and General Gotz was appointed to restructure the Ottoman armed forces. The successful national movements in the Balkans posed a threat that the same would occur in Asia Minor. After the Balkan Wars the Young Turks decided that Asia Minor would be a homeland for Turks alone and that the Greeks and Armenians had to be eliminated. The outbreak of World War I made this possible and Germany willingly sacrificed the Christian minorities to achieve its aim in the Middle East. However, it is the German and Austrian diplomats reports that confirm that what took place was a systematic and deliberate extermination of the Christian population. Genocide. Not security or defence measures, not relocations of population (why forcibly relocate populations?) not war, not retaliation in response to the activities of Pontian guerillas or Russian invasion but GENOCIDE.

Terrorism, labour battalions, exiles, forced marches, rapes, hangings, fires, murders, planned, directed and executed by the Turkish authorities. This can be corroborated by the German and Austrian archives now made public:

24 July 1909 German Ambassador in Athens Wangenheim to Chancellor Bulow quoting Turkish Prime Minister Sefker Pasha: "The Turks have decided upon a war of extermination against their Christian subjects."
26 July 1909 Sefker Pasha visited Patriarch Ioakeim III and tells him: "we will cut off your heads, we will make you disappear. It is either you or us who will survive."

14 May 1914 Official document from Talaat Bey Minister of the Interior to Prefect of Smyrna: The Greeks, who are Ottoman subjects, and form the majority of inhabitants in your district, take advantage of the circumstances in order to provoke a revolutionary current, favourable to the intervention of the Great Powers. Consequently, it is urgently necessary that the Greeks occupying the coast-line of Asia Minor be compelled to evacuate their villages and install themselves in the vilayets of Erzerum and Chaldea. If they should refuse to be transported to the appointed places, kindly give instructions to our Moslem brothers, so that they shall induce the Greeks, through excesses of all sorts, to leave their native places of their own accord. Do not forget to obtain, in such cases, from the emigrants certificates stating that they leave their homes on their own initiative, so that we shall not have political complications ensuing from their displacement.

31 July 1915 German priest J. Lepsius: "The anti-Greek and anti-Armenian persecutions are two phases of one programme - the extermination of the Christian element from Turkey.

16 July 1916 German Consul Kuchhoff from Amisos to Berlin: "The entire Greek population of Sinope and the coastal region of the county of Kastanome has been exiled. Exile and extermination in Turkish are the same, for whoever is not murdered, will die from hunger or illness."
30 November 1916 Austrian consul at Amisos Kwiatkowski to Austria Foreign Minister Baron Burian: "on 26 November Rafet Bey told me: "we must finish off the Greeks as we did with the Armenians . . . on 28 November. Rafet Bey told me: "today I sent squads to the interior to kill every Greek on sight." I fear for the elimination of the entire Greek population and a repeat of what occurred last year" (meaning the Armenian genocide).

13 December 1916 German Ambassador Kuhlman to Chancellor Hollweg in Berlin: "Consuls Bergfeld in Samsun and Schede in Kerasun report of displacement of local population and murders. Prisoners are not kept. Villages reduced to ashes. Greek refugee families consisting mostly of women and children being marched from the coasts to Sebasteia. The need is great."

19 December 1916 Austrian Ambassador to Turkey Pallavicini to Vienna lists the villages in the region of Amisos that were being burnt to the ground and their inhabitants raped, murdered or dispersed.
20 January 1917 Austrian Ambassador Pallavicini: "the situation for the displaced is desperate. Death awaits them all. I spoke to the Grand Vizier and told him that it would be sad if the persecution of the Greek element took the same scope and dimension as the Armenia persecution. The Grand Vizier promised that he would influence Talaat Bey and Emver Pasha."

31 January 1917 Austrian Chancellor Hollweg's report: ". . . the indications are that the Turks plan to eliminate the Greek element as enemies of the state, as they did earlier with the Armenians. The strategy implemented by the Turks is of displacing people to the interior without taking measures for their survival by exposing them to death, hunger and illness. The abandoned homes are then looted and burnt or destroyed. Whatever was done to the Armenians is being repeated with the Greeks.

Thus, by government decree 1,500,000 Armenians and 300,000 Pontian Greeks were annihilated through exile, starvation, cold, illness, slaughter, murder, gallows, axe, and fire. Those who survived fled never to return. The Pontians now lie scattered all over the world as a result of the genocide and their unique history, language (the dialect is a valuable link between ancient and modern Greek), and culture are endangered and face extinction.
A double crime was committed - genocide and the uprooting of a people from their ancestral homelands of three millenia. The Christian nations were not only witnesses to this horrible and monstrous crime, which remains unpunished, but for reasons of political expediency and self interest have, by their silence, pardoned the criminal. The Ottoman and Kemalist Turks were responsible for the genocide of the Pontian people, the most heinous of all crimes according to international law. The international community must recognise this crime.

Source

Further reading:

Book

More sources:

Conference de M.ANDRE MANDELSTAM : "LA TURQUIE", Imprimerie M. FLINIKOWSKI, Paris 1918.

English Ambassador Michael Smith
Book: "The vision of Ionia" Page 81.

Fellix Sartiaux, article in Newspaper The New Europe 19 February 1920

Le Temps 13 June 1914

Henry Morgandaw American Ambassador

"The secrets of Bosphorus" page 100-103

Horace Rumbold December 11 1917 Foreign office

Jean Bart French Navy 26 July 1919

Franz Von Klinenvoss Germany "Memoirs"

Austrian Ambassador Kwiacokvski Sampsun 30 Novemebr 1916

Austrian Ambassador in Istanpolis 29 January 1917 article: 8/D/P

G.M.Rendel, Foreign Office Archive: EASTERN(TURKEY), E3148/44, F.O. 371/7876, XC 145767.

French Archives Quai d' Orsay, N. S. Turquie, Tome 7, page 92.

Edouard Driault et Michel Lheritier: "Historie diplomatique de la Grece, de 1821 a nos jours", Tome V, page 4-7.
-----------------------------------------------------------

As for the echo it has already destroyed your wall and taken you out of the closet. It is not my fault that you choose to be acknowledged as a femme and thus your avatar and StarWars derived name and drama "Collective conscience" my ass.........

BOO Turco. Get the fuck out my face before i fart you to oblivion.

From now on that i know that you are no girl...you shall enjoy the relative treatment.

As for your bullshit "collective conscience" preaching, learn that everybody speaks for thyself, which means that all this time you are projecting the feelings of your own self.

As for your signature(your echo), it is simply my Ellinic signature briefly in Latin, goes more to show that you are even unable to have a signature of your own culture and you only use the others.

Read the source: even in Arabic style, both ways:

NIPSONANOMIMATAMIMONANOPSIN

[Cid]

Running away wont save you, accept the true state of your mind.

Recognition relates not to what has happened in the world, but what is happening in your head. The collective conscience is motioning you to seek recognition of the hate and fear that that torments your mind and being. Your tormented state about Greek Anatolian history is artificial, nothing but an excuse to hate and fear. It motions you to confront your antagonist like you did now about farting me to oblivion and ridiculing my culture, once again showing the bigoted state you mind is. You are the one in oblivion, you are compelled to spawn hate and fear to get a reaction would justify your hate and fear. Because if the hate and fear is not justified, the torment of your mind and being is all in vain. The collective conscious is self sufficient. There is no emotion from history no guilt from history, you must uncover the lie in you so that you can free yourself from the hate and fear that has soiled your mind. The answer is in you to save yourself and be at peace, not in mine recognition or by hating/fearing me or that what categorizes me, what you describe as Turco. Liberate yourself, use the mirror of God, because if you cant yourself, there is none else that can help you.

The collective conscience has overtaken your mind, all that is you is rotten away. The suffering was for nothing, the key was in you but fear and hate blinded you. There is nothing left but a whimper in the hollow man you have become.

[noemon]

You continue spewing the same bullshit over and over again, and ofc you have absolutely nothing worthy to add.

Your inability has been celebrated.

Your posts speak for themselves, i will copy/paste your drama-Star Wars copy/pasting and post it in the various forums i dwell into, you shall become the joke of the our summer.

Please continue.

People am sure you are enjoying this as much as i am.

I am pretty sure that necro-posting is not allowed in this forum and totally trolling material are being deleted on the spot.

But in any case, please leave this turco play his game of Imam, it has already become subject of laughter in various places.

You can keep on projecting dear Cid, and at the same time masturbating in front of star wars.

See Projection

In psychology, psychological projection (or projection bias) is a defense mechanism in which one attributes to others one’s own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts or/and emotions. Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted subconscious impulses/desires without letting the ego recognize them. The theory was developed by Sigmund Freud and further refined by his daughter Anna Freud.

Peter Gay describes it as "the operation of expelling feelings or wishes the individual finds wholly unacceptable—too shameful, too obscene, too dangerous—by attributing them to another."[1]

"Projection is the opposite defence mechanism to identification. We project our own unpleasant feelings onto someone else and blame them for having thoughts that we really have."
"A defense mechanism in which the individual attributes to other people impulses and traits that he himself has but cannot accept. It is especially likely to occur when the person lacks insight into his own impulses and traits."
"Attributing one's own undesirable traits to other people or agencies."
"The individual perceives in others the motive he denies having himself. Thus the cheat is sure that everyone else is dishonest."
"People attribute their own undesirable traits onto others.
"An individual who possesses malicious characteristics, but who is unwilling to perceive himself as an antagonist, convinces himself that his opponent feels and would act the same way."

Please continue projecting and proving your own inferiority complexes.

Up until now you have denied: The Pontian Genocide, the Armenian, The Imvros Issue of the Open Prison, you have aimed to justify the murder of the Pilot. You have blamed the Greeks for brainwashing without offering any evidence when yourself consider the Turks actually more Anatolian Yunanis than the Greeks-Yunanis-Ellines themselves.

You have proved all your projection into this forum, and have tragically verified all your complexes.

Please keep on projecting and ofc forget all about the sources and the confrontations posted that have actually led you to this pitifull condition.

As for me running away do not worry am not going anywhere, i am still waiting for your honest opinion or counter-argumentation on the specific events sourced in this thread.

[Aristotelian]

Somehow (and god knows how) the author has managed to link the subject of Ottoman rule in Greece 200 years ago to Turkey's EU prospects!?!

I dont understand if the author considers himself a historian or a "progressive journalist"

The Tourkokratia - Was it Really That Bad?-Part 1A


The author makes a number of questionable claims:

3. That Greeks were under pressure to convert to Islam. No. The relatively few conversions were for personal advantage. There was no pressure to convert.

Christians in the Ottoman Empire were subject to paying taxes which to Muslims werent, were subject to daily reminders of their 'captivity' to their Muslim hosts through laws such as the one which allowed a Muslim to beat a passing Christian if he did not dismount his horse and show bow to a Muslim. Escaping the general brutalisation of the Christian "rayah" and "Giour", ("cattle" and "infidel" as they were referred to even officially), I imagine is what the author means by "conversions for personal advantage".

Aside from these "pressures" to convert there are various instances and places in Turkish occupied Greece where Christians were forced to convert or be killed. Crete is the most well known of these places where large scale violent conversions and killings occured.

Aside from this, the Janissary system forced children to convert to Islam and was obviously forcible.

7. That the Turks cut Greece off from Europe's Renaissance and Enlightenment. No. The main barrier to Greek artistic and intellectual development Was the conservatism of the Greek Church, and of the education for which it was responsible.

Quite a claim here. He forgets the fact that the Italian rennaisance kicked off when it did largely as a result of Byzantines emigrating to Italy, taking with them the knowledge of the classics. According to Knapp in his book, Multicultural Writers from Antiquity to 1945, "with the advent of Ottoman rule, the Greek mainland lost any kind of cultural ingenuity. The plains and cities became de-populated as people took to the mountains to obtain some degree of autonomy from Ottoman rule. A primitive economy and largely violent, bandit prone landscape was not errupted until the forces of the enlightenment arrived in Greece via the Ionian islands and Napoleon's exportation of the French revolution all over Europe"

[Aristotelian]

And can someone please tell me what Turkish occupation in Greece which ended in 1821 has to do with its EU prospects as the author says??

I support Turkish entry but they have ALOT of problems they have to face before they can enter the union. And none of those problems have anything to do with 200 years ago!