[Dave]

I wanna see the best game possible, played by the best players of whatever sport I'm interested in. I don't care about anything else. I realize you two are young, and don't see things like I do, but all it'll take is either of you having an athletic daughter at some point. Then you will beg me to forgive your ignorance. Which I may or may not do.

Interestingly David Stern used this argument to try to justify the WNBA (which should be shut down immediately) to Bill Simmons (the proud father of a new baby girl).

Even if you're correct, you still need to account for the many, many men who do not have daughters. What do we want to watch?

[Demosthenes]

What do we want to watch?

Interestingly enough, this same arguement is similar to the reasons people used to give for keeping African Americans out of pro sports. In time all those arguements lost merit as they largely improved the quality of the game by supllying better players. Eventually guys without daughters will appreciate the improved play. Until then, I'd say they should just stick their heads in the sand and pretend the world didn't just pass them by.

[Dave]

Most sports fans aren't sexually attracted to men, and for the small number that are black male athletes might even be more attractive to them. And athletic competition had much, much more to gain from black participation than it does from female participation. Blacks are athletically superior in many ways, women are athletically inferior (except in dexterity and flexibility).

[Demosthenes]

Most sports fans aren't sexually attracted to men, and for the small number that are black male athletes might even be more attractive to them. And athletic competition had much, much more to gain from black participation than it does from female participation. Blacks are athletically superior in many ways, women are athletically inferior (except in dexterity and flexibility).

But, of course, I'm speciifcally talking about the sports where raw strength is minimized, and have pointed this out repeatedly. The only real need for raw strength in baseball is in slugging, and perhaps sliding into homeplate. The rest is all speed and glove work, both of which women can accel at, if...in general the fasted women are not as fast as the fasted men. Still, I guarentee they can outrun fat ass pitchers and catchers, among others.

Sexual attraction to sports figures is their problem, not mine nor that of female athletes.

[Dave]

Given the ongoing sabemetric revolution in scouting, slugging is going to become more important, not less. Given that women are, on average, slower than men, female contact hitters will also have much greater difficulty reaching base on a contact hit. Once on base, their lower speed will make them less of a base stealing threat.

Successful fielding requires more than glove work, as range is strongly influenced by speed and jumping ability. In the outfield you can forget about women (unless you're a monster slugger, you are not playing outfield if you're slow). Some truly exceptional women might make the infield.

As for pitching? The best softball pitchers could possibly pitch in the majors, but I do question how many women can toss 100+ 90mph+ pitches in a game, and carry on this performance for 200+ innings per season. Middle relief? There is also, by the way, an increasing trend towards taller pitchers (higher throwing position to dominate hitters, longer arms and legs for higher speed).

I really doubt you'd see many women at all, but hell, hold open tryouts and see.

[Demosthenes]

I really doubt you'd see many women at all, but hell, hold open tryouts and see.

I still disagree with a few of your above conclusions, but still...this is all I'm talking about. If they get a fair shake and can't make the team, then...them's the breaks.

[Dave]

Are women even banned from trying out, actually? I'm still opposed for spectator/troglodyte reasons, but I don't think it would ultimately be a big deal (due to the small number of women who would make it, if any), and the media exposure could be positive. College football had that kicker (who was allegedly raped) at Colorado, after all.

[Erebus]

Sports should have teams which are all one gender.

Each sport should stay as it is; there's football (soccer) for men and women, etc.