[anasawad]

Dude. The bible doesnt say 6000 years old. It says 6 stages or oeriods if time.

[ingliz]

The origin of the first life is something that can not be explained by scientific naturalism, because the scientific Law of Biogenesis states that life only comes from life.

Abiogenesis - Matter contrives to be alive.

The formation of biological materials in a prebiotic habitat:

Abstract

Sunlight exposed sterilised aqueous mixture of some inorganic and organic substances showed the photochemical formation of self-sustaining, supramolecular assemblies ‘Jeewanu’. The microscopic observation (Optical, SCM and TEM) showed that they possess an ordered structural configuration. They are capable of showing various properties of biological order viz. multiplication by budding, growth from within and metabolic activities in them. The histochemical investigation of Jeewanu showed the presence of RNA-like material. The Abiogenesis of RNA-like substances in Jeewanu mixture supports RNA world theory suggesting its primitivity.

A research project completed in March 2015 by John D. Sutherland and others found that a network of reactions beginning with hydrogen cyanide and hydrogen sulfide, in streams of water irradiated by UV light, could produce the chemical components of proteins and lipids, as well as those of RNA.

6000 years

Sediment from the bed of Lake Suigetsu, west of Tokyo:

Two distinct sediment layers have formed in the lake every summer and winter over tens of thousands of years. The researchers collected roughly 70-metre core samples from the lake and painstakingly counted the layers to come up with a direct record stretching back 52,000 years.

The entire 73-metre Suigetsu composite sediment sequence is estimated to cover the last 150,000 yrs (Nakagawa et al., 2012); the top 31 metres is robustly dated (Bronk Ramsey et al., 2012) and represents the last 40,000 yrs.

The upper ~46 m of the Lake Suigetsu sediment profile demonstrates distinct lamination and represents sediment deposition spanning approximately the last 60,000 years. The underlying core section, from 46.01 to 63.75 m composite depth, is not laminated, and represents a time period when the lake was not deep enough to maintain anoxic bottom water conditions. Below 63.75 m, down to the base of the core at 73.19 m composite depth, the sediment is composed of alternating peat, inorganic clay layers, and occasionally finely laminated organic clays. This time period represents alternating fluvial and shallow water lacustrine environments that occurred after the initial tectonic formation of the basin.

[Besoeker]

Dude. The bible doesnt say 6000 years old. It says 6 stages or oeriods if time.

Dated at 4004BC according to Bishop Ussher......
https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/ussher.htm

Maybe that's where he got it.

[Hindsite]

Contamination is not possible.

Contamination is possible and is very likely.

•Contaminants of samples for radiocarbon dating can be natural or artificial.
•Inaccurate results are obtained if contaminants are not removed.
•Physical pretreatment methods remove contaminants without using chemicals.
•Chemical pretreatment often involves acid and alkali rinses to dissolve contaminants and preserve the desired portion of a sample.

One of the basic assumptions in carbon-14 dating is that the sample being analyzed has undergone only radioactive decay and has remained unaltered by any other process over the years since it ceased interaction with the biosphere.

This assumption, however, is rarely true. The archaeological artifacts and geological specimens sent to labs for radiocarbon dating are usually found embedded or buried with other materials that may have affected their radiocarbon content. Any carbon-containing material that affects the carbon 14 content of any given sample is therefore a contaminant.

The occurrence of contamination can be natural or artificial. Natural contamination pertains to the introduction of contaminants to the sample by its surrounding material. For example, bone samples can be contaminated by the presence of limestone or organic acids in the soil (like humic or fulvic acids) where the bones were found. Another example of a natural contaminant is plant root penetration on wood, charcoal, or soil.

Artificial contamination refers to the introduction of contaminants by man during the collection, field conservation, or packaging of the samples. Labeling of bone samples with animal glue is an example of artificial contamination. Other contaminants that may be introduced during sample collection and packaging are biocides, conservation chemicals like polyvinyl acetate and polyethylene glycol, cigarette ash, and labels and wrappers that are made of paper.

How do Contaminants Affect Radiocarbon Dating Results?

Contaminated samples, naturally, will have inaccurate results. The specific effect of the contaminant on radiocarbon dating results depends on the type of contaminant, the degree of contamination, and the relative ages of the sample and the contaminant.

Limestone is of geological origin and would be much older than any archaeological sample; hence, inclusion of limestone during the carbon 14 dating would make the sample older than its true age.

Humic and fulvic acids are naturally present in soil where microbial degradation of plants and animals has occurred. The effect of these organic acids on the sample, whether they would make the sample older or younger, depends on the age of their original organism.

When roots of plants penetrate wood, charcoal, soil, or bones, modern carbon is already introduced to them. This occurrence can make the samples seem younger than their true age.

The degree of contamination affects the magnitude of the inaccuracy in the carbon 14 dating results. In general, infinite-age contamination can make a sample considerably older while modern contamination can make the sample significantly younger than its true age.

http://www.radiocarbon.com/carbon-datin ... atment.htm

[Hindsite]

Dude. The bible doesnt say 6000 years old. It says 6 stages or oeriods if time.

The Holy Bible actually says that the heavens, the earth, the seas, and all that are in them were created in 6 days, that is 6 (24-hour) days. We calculate the 6000 years by adding all the years of history mentioned in the Old Testament until we arrive at a well known historical time that can be confirmed by other historical records outside the Old Testament. Then counting that time down to the present, we get about 6,000 years of history.

[Hindsite]

Abiogenesis - Matter contrives to be alive.

This abiogenesis hypothesis is nonsense for many reasons. The main reason is that it wood violate the Law of Biogenesis, which is a natural impossibility. That could only happen by a supernatural miracle.

There is no need to comment on the other stuff, because all those estimated ages are also bogus nonsense.

[Besoeker]

This abiogenesis hypothesis is nonsense for many reasons. The main reason is that it wood violate the Law of Biogenesis, which is a natural impossibility.

What does the the Law of Biogenesis state and what your scientific source is?

[ingliz]

a natural impossibility

The Origin of Life at a submarine alkaline seepage
Michael J. Russell, Allan J. Hall, Laiq Rahman & Dugald Turner


Abstract (2001)

The Earth agglomerates and heats.

Volcanoes evolve carbon oxides, methane and pyrophosphate.

Convection cells, in the planetary interior, begin the cooling process.

An acidulous Hadean ocean condenses from the carbon oxide sky.

Stratospheric smogs absorb a proportion of the Sun's rays.

The now cool ocean leaks into the stressed crust and convects.

Acid springs of high temperature, coupled to emergent magmatic plumes, emit ferrous iron and other transition metals to the ocean.

Solar energy oxidises some iron to the ferric state, generating a dispersed positive terminal.

Cooler alkaline waters emanate from the deep ocean floor, bearing hydrogen, methane, ammonia, formaldehyde, cyanide, thiols and hydrosulfide - molecules reduced from water and carbon oxides by reaction with ferrous silicate, residual nickeliferous iron and ferrous sulfide.

Where these waters seep into the ocean, mounds, comprising layers of ferrous sulfide and green rust flocculants and films, arise in the ocean darkness.

Here the reduced organic molecules are filtered and adsorbed.

Concentrated thus they react to form glyceraldehyde, amino acids, and the components of nucleosides.

The fluids are frustrated in their further attempt to mix thoroughly with their oceanic source by the spontaneous precipitation of a "biomorphic" barrier of colloidal iron compounds.

Nucleotides are then assembled in green rust and refluxed.

The thermal potential begins to be dissipated but the chemical potential is dammed.

The mounds are negative electrodes.

The Earth is a giant photo-electrochemical cell.

The ocean and the iron sulfide are the electrolytes.

Ferric iron, the potential positive electrode, is eddy-pumped by strong lunar tide to the ocean bottom.

Iron sulfide and hydroxide bubbles inflate fitfully at the seepage.

Though the hydrothermal solution is constrained, electrons escape from adsorbed hydrogen through the conducting layers of iron monosulfide, drawn to reduce the photolytic ferric iron.

The now activated hydrogen takes part in further extempore dynamic combinatorial chemosynthesis on mineral surfaces at around 50°C.

And there is spasmodic invasion of the iron sulfide/hydroxide barrier, by protons, pyrophosphate and carbonic acid, through iron sulfide-walled micro-channels.

The nucleotides poison the iron sulfide but spell the password to a coevolutionary future, with peptides, "through a molecular passage".

The side chains of particular amino acids register to fitting nucleotide triplet clefts.

Keyed in, the amino acids are polymerised, through acid-base catalysis, to alpha chains by invading protons.

The resulting short protopeptides sequester ready-made iron sulfide clusters to form ferredoxins, ubiquitous proteins with the longest evolutionary pedigree.

These take-over the role of catalyst and electron transfer agent from the iron(nickel) sulfides, promote further chemosynthesis and so support the hatchery, the electrochemical reactor, from which they sprang.

Peptides, the would-be tenuous outer-most filaments on iron monosulfide, continually peel away from bound RNA, the penultimate band, driven by the proton-motive force.

Reactions and interactions fall into step as they negotiate the first biochemical pathways.

This hydrothermal circuitry offers a continuous supply of electricity and proticity at a voltage appropriate for the onset of Life in the dark, a kinetic structure emerging in a "gradual instant", yet born to persist and make waste while the sun shines.

From these ebullient beginnings, the emergent prokaryotes decouple from the immediate hydrothermal system and individuate.

Other electron donors and acceptors are exploited, some made newly available through the geochemical and biochemical evolution of the planet.

And other transition metal centres appropriate to particular potentials, are co-opted, though simple structural and dynamic patterns are re-membered.

Contention ensues though genes are exchanged.

Lower and higher temperature niches are colonised.

The chirality war looms.

Photosynthesis beckons.

Symbionts will be conscripted from complex, well-populated prokaryotic consortia, RNAs imbricated and eukaryotes conceived.

Yet springs and seepages remain the refugia from extraterrestrial assaults to the volatisphere, and serve as the forcing frames for evolutionary complexification.

Inspiration:

Krishnamurthy et al. 1999. Origins of Life, 29, 139-152.
Anthony Mellersh, 1993. Origins of Life, 23, 261-274.
Anne Michaels, 1996. Fugitive Pieces. McClelland & Stewart. Canada
Yves Tanguy, 1929. Dehors, National Gallery of Modern Art, Edinburgh.
Shock and Schulte 1998. J. Geophys. Res., 103E, 28513-28527.

[ingliz]

The Origin of Life at a submarine alkaline seepage
Michael J. Russell, Allan J. Hall, Laiq Rahman & Dugald Turner

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because all those estimated ages

No, they have been painstakingly counting the layers to come up with a direct record stretching back 52,000 years.

Two distinct sediment layers have formed in the lake every summer and winter over tens of thousands of year.

[Hindsite]

The Origin of Life at a submarine alkaline seepage
Michael J. Russell, Allan J. Hall, Laiq Rahman & Dugald Turner
.....

Two distinct sediment layers have formed in the lake every summer and winter over tens of thousands of year.

What you posted does not support the theory of evolution. It does not mean anything with regard to life other than it does not happen by chance.

This video answers the following questions: How does the theory of evolution contradict the law of biogenesis which states that life only comes from other life? How close have scientists come to creating life? What are some problems encountered in synthesizing life? Is life just chemistry? What two scientific experiments disproved the idea of the spontaneous generation of life? What other ideas are proposed for the origin of life on earth? Francisco Redi on a macroscopic level and Louis Pasteur on a microscopic level showed that life does not come from non-life.

[youtube]WZ-Vz0ITIo0[/youtube]

This video answers the following questions: How does the theory of evolution contradict the "law of kinds" which shows that everything brings forth after its kind? Why can't a dog breed with a cat? What are some examples of variations in nature?

[youtube]_TyKxcZAWss[/youtube]

This video answers the following questions: How does the theory of evolution contradict the first law of thermodynamics? How does the theory of evolution contradict the second law of thermodynamics? Systems left to themselves go to a condition of greater disorder, probability and randomness. Evolution claims that disordered particles arrange themselves into ordered life.

[youtube]cprDn9PpyNc[/youtube]

[ingliz]

What you posted does not support the theory of evolution

Irrelevant! Abiogenesis and evolution are two completely different things. The theory of evolution says absolutely nothing about the origin of life. It merely describes the processes which take place once life has started up.

How close have scientists come to creating life?

What is life?

Scientists have created 'proto-cells' that possess an ordered structural configuration and are capable of showing various properties of biological order viz. multiplication by budding, growth from within and metabolic activity.

Using simple, everyday chemicals, researchers from Ames’ Astrochemistry Laboratory and the Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry at the University of California, Santa Cruz, have created, for the first time, proto-cells.

the second law of thermodynamics?

The second law of thermodynamics simply says that the entropy of a closed system will tend to increase with time. Entropy is a technical term with a precise physical definition, but for most purposes it is okay to think of it as equivalent to "disorder". Therefore, the second law of thermodynamics basically says that the universe as a whole gets more disordered and random as time goes on.

However, the most important part of the second law of thermodynamics is that it only applies to a closed system - one that does not have anything going in or out of it - Life is not a closed system. Also, there is nothing about the second law that prevents one part of a closed system from getting more ordered, as long as another part of the system is getting more disordered.

[Hindsite]

What it all means is that abiogenesis and evolution are false and that life and our solar system was created and not brought into existence by chance happenings.

[Godstud]

The problem with you, Hindsite,( and it's a BIG problem) is that you can't equate "random chance" with "created by god".
Scientifically we call it random chance, but you can call it God if you want.

There is no fucking competition going on!!!!!!!

[ingliz]

the second law of thermodynamics?

"The second law of thermodynamics argument is one of the hoariest, silliest claims in the creationist collection. It's self-refuting. Point to the creationist: ask whether he was a baby once. Has he grown? Has he become larger and more complex? Isn't he standing there in violation of the second law himself? Demand that he immediately regress to a slimy puddle of mingled menses and semen."

P.Z. Myers

chance happenings.

Certain kinds of molecules have physical and chemical properties that allow them to self-assemble into orderly structures, and these are the molecules used by living cells.

[Hindsite]

The problem with you, Hindsite,( and it's a BIG problem) is that you can't equate "random chance" with "created by god".
Scientifically we call it random chance, but you can call it God if you want.

There is no fucking competition going on!!!

The problem with you, Godstud, (and it's a BIG problem) is that you can't see that there is no plan of design in random chance. However, we see all types of design plans in our natural world, which testifies loudly of a designer that planned our world to be inhabited just like the Holy Bible reveals.

For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

(Isaiah 45:18 KJV)

[Hindsite]

It appears that ingliz has a similar blind spot as does Godstud. Instead of believing the inspired words of the infallible creator God of the universe, he choose to believe the propaganda of fallible men, like P.Z. Myers.

These men ignore that God created the laws of physics and chemistry and has set everything in motion according to His programs in nature. It is the life program in the DNA of plants and animals that seems to contradict the laws of Thermodynamics, but that is only for a time. Because there is a point when the baby has grown to maturity and then he grows old and dies.

I say, “O my God, do not take me away in the midst of my days,
Your years are throughout all generations.
“Of old You founded the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
“Even they will perish, but You endure;
And all of them will wear out like a garment;
Like clothing You will change them and they will be changed.
“But You are the same,
And Your years will not come to an end.

(Psalm 103:24-27 NASB)
[youtube]JM1V2YJZakw[/youtube]

And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.

“Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

(Matthew 24:4-14 NASB)

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

(2 Peter 2:1-3 NASB)

[ingliz]

It is the life program in the DNA of plants and animals that seems to contradict the laws of Thermodynamics

Life is not a closed system. The sun provides more than enough energy to drive things. Classical thermodynamics cares not one wit about the fine structure of what’s inside or outside the system. All that matters is how much heat and work are exchanged and how it is done.

[Hindsite]

Life is not a closed system. The sun provides more than enough energy to drive things. Classical thermodynamics cares not one wit about the fine structure of what’s inside or outside the system. All that matters is how much heat and work are exchanged and how it is done.

Life comes from God. God gives life and He takes it away. However, God exists both inside and outside our system, which is closed to us. One can provide all the energy they wish and if there is nothing designed to convert it for a useful purpose, it is just a source of destruction.

God is no longer creating in our world and this is described by the first law of thermodynamics. The second law of thermodynamics describes sin and death and a decaying world.

[ingliz]

God is no longer creating in our world

It is only the over-all entropy of a complete, or closed system that must increase when spontaneous change occurs. In the case of spontaneously interacting sub-systems of a closed system, some may gain entropy, while others may lose entropy. For example, it is a fundamental axiom of thermodynamics that when heat flows from subsystem A to subsystem B, the entropy of A decreases and the entropy of B increases. The statement that an increase in order can only occur as the result of a directional mechanism, program, or code is misleading. Any process that can be demonstrated to take place with an increase in order/decrease in entropy is arbitrarily deemed to be the consequence of an undefined "directional mechanism."

Probability, as used in thermodynamics, means the probability that some specific change will occur. Probability is related to the thermodynamic concept of irreversibility. An irreversible physical or chemical change is a change that will not spontaneously reverse itself without some change in the surrounding conditions. Irreversible changes have a high degree of probability. The probability of an irreversible change spontaneously reversing itself without outside interference is zero.

When we say that a change is irreversible (in the thermodynamics sense) it means only that the change will not spontaneously reverse itself without some change in the surrounding conditions. It does not mean that it cannot be reversed by any means at all!

It is important to remember that a change that has a high degree of probability under one set of circumstances may have a very low degree of probability under a different set of circumstances. To illustrate: If the temperature drops below freezing, the probability of water becoming ice is very high. The change from water to ice is thermodynamically irreversible. If the surrounding temperature should happen to rise above the freezing point, the probability of water becoming ice, or remaining as ice, is zero. Under these conditions the reverse change of ice to liquid water is also thermodynamically irreversible.

Failure to understand that in thermodynamics probabilities are not fixed entities has led to a misinterpretation that is responsible for the wide- spread and totally false belief that the second law of thermodynamics does not permit order to spontaneously arise from disorder. In fact, there are many examples in nature where order does arise spontaneously from disorder: Snowflakes with their six-sided crystalline symmetry are formed spontaneously from randomly moving water vapor molecules. Salts with precise planes of crystalline symmetry form spontaneously when water evaporates from a solution. Seeds sprout into flowering plants and eggs develop into chicks.

The second law of thermodynamics describes sin and death and a decaying world.

Thermodynamics is an exact science that is based on a limited number of specific mathematical concepts. It is not explainable in terms of qualitative metaphors.

[Hindsite]

Failure to understand that in thermodynamics probabilities are not fixed entities has led to a misinterpretation that is responsible for the wide- spread and totally false belief that the second law of thermodynamics does not permit order to spontaneously arise from disorder. In fact, there are many examples in nature where order does arise spontaneously from disorder: Snowflakes with their six-sided crystalline symmetry are formed spontaneously from randomly moving water vapor molecules. Salts with precise planes of crystalline symmetry form spontaneously when water evaporates from a solution. Seeds sprout into flowering plants and eggs develop into chicks.

Spontaneous generation of life has been disproved over a hundred years ago. So the second law of thermodynamics is just another nail in that coffin. There is no spontaneius generation when a chick hatches from an egg or when snowflakes make patterns. Those are both designed processes created by God.