[Atlantis]

I don't know much about Islam and I'm appalled like most of you by the constant stream of news about violence committed in the name of Islam.

But no religion spanning many centuries and hundreds of millions of followers in different countries all over the World can be a homogeneous body. There are invariably different interpretations.

The below view Yasir Qadhi expresses in his facebook entry is in stark contrast to the Islam of the gunmen at Charlie Hebdo. What is the real Islam?

It is truly sad, our state of affairs. To Allah alone we complain.

We have so many people who are so full of anger and hatred, towards the rest of humanity, towards their fellow Muslims, towards students of knowledge and scholars and activists, that it appears they have wiped out their basic humanity and mercy.

We have uneducated, self-taught followers who believe they are so qualified to give religious verdicts that they can make someone else's life permissible, without ever actually having studied with a single scholar. Googling fatwas and quoting random incidents from the Seerah is enough these days to become a faqih.

We have opened up the doors of 'takfir' (excommunicating other Muslims): something that even the greatest of scholars would rarely use against their most heretical opponents is now being tossed around like candy against anyone who disagrees with your position.

We have obliterated the concept of husn al-dhann (thinking the best of others), and filled ourselves with unbelievable arrogance. Just because someone does not support our way of doing things, in our arrogance this equates to him opposing the religion of Islam itself, and becoming an enemy of Allah and His Messenger! As if *my* opinion becomes representative of Allah Himself!!

We have constructed a do-it-yourself version of Islam, where scholarship can be learnt in a day, and reputable scholars from around the globe who have lived many decades in the service of Islam are simply tossed aside without the least hesitation. A 'scholar' becomes any internet preacher who simply happens to agree with my version of Islam, no matter how few credentials he has, or how naive his understanding of the prophetic methodology is, or how un-Islamic his message might actually be.

We have made our religion about smearing others, hating others, killing others.... and in the process forgotten that our primary job is the worship of Allah and the embodiment of the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah, so that others love us for our good, not fear us for our evils.

We have opened up the doors of hypocrisy, blaming 'them' for all of our woes, whereas the fact of the matter is that the harm we cause our religion is far worse than anything they can do or have ever done.

And in all of this, we have lost so many of the core essentials of Islam: mercy, compassion, knowledge, patience, good manners, forbearance....and the list goes on and on.

Indeed, it is truly sad, our state of affairs. And to Allah alone I complain.

I'm not about to convert to Islam, but Yasir certainly does express universal religious sentiments I can't find fault with.

In the very least, we have to accept that this too is Islam and not equate Islam with Islamist extremism, just like most Christians don't feel their faith is represented by the acts of Anders Breivik.

[Noelnada]

I don't know much about Islam and I'm appalled like most of you by the constant stream of news about violence committed in the name of Islam

It is a good thing then that you don't have to hear about all the violence committed daily in the name of freedom, democracy and the free-market. You'd be truly appalled if you knew

[Atlantis]

It is a good thing then that you don't have to hear about all the violence committed daily in the name of freedom, democracy and the free-market. You'd be truly appalled if you knew

I do hear about it and I'm just as much appalled, even if the two cannot be equated.

I opposed the Iraq war, the bombing of Libya, the destabilization of Syria, the Afghanistan invasion, the tough-handed Israeli approach to the Palestinians and much more. In fact, I have consistently opposed violence for more than 50 years, but I don't think I should have to add this to every post I write, so as not to come under suspicion of being callous.

[Noelnada]

I don't think I should have to add this to every post I write, so as not to come under suspicion of being callous.

Sorry if i offended you

[quetzalcoatl]

I do hear about it and I'm just as much appalled, even if the two cannot be equated.

I opposed the Iraq war, the bombing of Libya, the destabilization of Syria, the Afghanistan invasion, the tough-handed Israeli approach to the Palestinians and much more. In fact, I have consistently opposed violence for more than 50 years, but I don't think I should have to add this to every post I write, so as not to come under suspicion of being callous.

There is no doubt in my mind that the US as a target of terrorism is directly related to our long-term presence in the Middle East, and the delusional dabblings of the CIA in empire building.

[Davea8]

But no religion spanning many centuries and hundreds of millions of followers in different countries all over the World can be a homogeneous body. There are invariably different interpretations.

That is actually the difference between the insights intuitive to those who are truly spiritual and the more worldly or carnal perspective of religionists who immerse themselves in priestcraft. Due to the natural bent of each person, every religion has both claiming to be adherents.

In the words of their "avatars" (Jesus, Mohammed, Krishna, Buddha) teach those who can hear that practicing the religion is a process of "unselfing" and "overcoming" worldliness. The idea being to withdraw from the turmoil of the world and abide in peace, not "going out", and that progress is marked by turning inward to that inner peace more and more, away from distractions ("sins") of the world more and more.

The radical religionist's reaction to criticisms of his religion by engaging in concern, let alone violence, is a reaction directly opposing and violating the entire principle of a search for inner peace and withdrawal from worldliness. Rather, it is to dive headlong INTO worldliness and AWAY from spirituality of any sort. IOW, such intolerance is non-spiritual and should not be considered a legitimate religious act, -nor is their notion of their religion. But can that be legislated? No. It would be good, however, if the true spiritual tolerance taught by the source of the religion (Jesus, Mohammed, Krishna, Buddha) were a frequent public pronouncement around the world by all religions so as to isolate and discredit the intolerant radicals.

My opinion.

[Atlantis]

My opinion.

Thanks for sharing your opinion!

I completely agree with what you say and I have always thought along the same lines.

We cannot judge on the real or alleged spiritual achievements of others, and we have to respect the religious sentiments of others, but we can clearly tell that those self-appointed prophets who preach death, destruction and intolerance are false prophets consumed by blind hatred who don't have the slightest idea about true spirituality. The fact that these preachers of hate take advantage of the innocent ardor of youth to lead it astray into death and destruction is more vile than anything I can imagine.

True religion cannot be separated from compassion. It's as simple as that.

[Davea8]

If I were to summarize my post, I guess I would say true religion as intended is always about what I, myself do about me, -not what others do, say, or think.

[Potemkin]

If I were to summarize my post, I guess I would say true religion as intended is always about what I, myself do about me, -not what others do, say, or think.

Awesome. Hey, you could call it 'The Religion of Me', or 'Meism' for short.

[Davea8]

Awesome. Hey, you could call it 'The Religion of Me', or 'Meism' for short.

Very good. But ridiculing an idea a pretty sure way of making certain the idea will never be correctly understood.

[Atlantis]

If I were to summarize my post, I guess I would say true religion as intended is always about what I, myself do about me, -not what others do, say, or think.

a) If we talk about "true spirituality", the self (or me) is forgotten.
b) If we talk about "true religion", there is always ethics, i.e., the way in which the "me" interacts with the "other".

[Stonewall]

It is a mystery....

Maybe we should look for clues somewhere? Maybe we should look at Muhammad and his original followers?

What act of violence occurring in the world today is not simply acting like Muhammad?

Give me one example...

[Atlantis]

Wars are always fought for economic interests, not because of religion. The powers-that-be will use any ideology to justify their greed. Even IS is no exception to that rule. They are just using the religious believes of the ignorant to fill their own pockets.

[Godstud]

ISIS is the real Islam.

People like this guy are just individual Muslims(secular at that... a dying breed), but Islam, as a whole is what ISIS represents. Islam is an ideology/religion, and when you actually follow it, it's more intolerant and oppressive than Nazism.

[GandalfTheGrey]

when you actually follow it, it's more intolerant and oppressive than Nazism.

Yup absolutely...,

...except when its not

[Godstud]

Sorry, instead of Jews it's women. There's the difference. Except... it is against Jews too, and everyone else(infidels).

Pretend all you want, in your overly-liberal delusion. Islam is not the religion of peaceful coexistence with anyone(not women, that's for sure), except Muslims. They are tolerant of no one else. But sure, continue to respect their religion, while they don't respect yours. That always works.

[GandalfTheGrey]

There are many times more people practicing Islam as a tolerant and peaceful religion. Yet you insist the tiny minority is the face of "true" Islam.

There is no sense or logic to your bigotry Godstud - you are thoroughly blinded with hate.

[Godstud]

You are blinded by your "faith" that your generosity, tolerance and respect will be returned. I'm no bigot. I am a realist. You're a dreamer.

Heck, I've encountered Muslim intolerance in Bangkok, where I was declined service at a restaurant because my Thai wife was not wearing Muslim attire(but very modestly dressed, as most Thai women are). They would not serve us and asked us to leave. Don't tell me about this mythical Muslim "tolerance".

There are many times more people practicing Islam as a tolerant and peaceful religion.

Please tell me which Islamic countries embody this view, and have freedom of religion(without persecution or taxation)and tolerance, where you can drink alcohol, where women can have the freedom to dress and go where they like, drive cars, vote, etc. I'll wait. It's no coincidence that Islamic countries are the least tolerant and the worst countries for freedom of religion, rights and liberties.

I have a friend who worked and travelled all over the Middle East throughout the 1970's to 2000's, and he was very frequently greeted with people spitting at his face because they knew he wasn't a Muslim. Do you think it has changed that much since then, or gotten worse?

Reality:
USCIRF Report Shows Islamic Countries Are Worst Violators of Religious Freedom; 12 Muslim-Majority Nations Top the List
http://www.christianpost.com/news/uscir ... st-138512/

9 of 10 Worst Countries for Persecution of Christians Have 50% or Greater Muslim Populations
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/laurett ... ter-muslim

Archive | Muslim Persecution of Christians
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/category/ ... hristians/

Religious Persecution Rising: Islam Threatens Religious Minorities, Especially In Middle East
http://www.forbes.com/sites/dougbandow/ ... ddle-east/

[GandalfTheGrey]

Please tell me which Islamic countries embody this view, and have freedom of religion(without persecution or taxation)and tolerance, where you can drink alcohol, where women can have the freedom to dress and go where they like, drive cars, vote, etc. I'll wait. It's no coincidence that Islamic countries are the least tolerant and the worst countries for freedom of religion, rights and liberties.

Probably zero. And yet how many muslim nations actually carry on like ISIS?

The point is though there have been more than enough surveys of actual muslim attitudes - worldwide - by PEW and others to confirm conclusively that the Islam that the overwhelming majority of muslims follow, is an Islam that is in almost complete opposition to ISIS's version. We're talking about the actual individual beliefs and practices of individual muslims, yet somehow, based on absolutely nothing, you insist that "when you follow Islam" - it must be the ISIS version. It is simply laughable given how a) surveys demonstrate muslims reject the ISIS version of Islam b) muslim leaders from all over the world, from all different sects have come out and overwhelmingly publicly condemned and rejected ISIS and c) ISIS themselves spend most of their time persecuting and slaughtering their fellow muslims - why? Because their version of Islam is so narrow that they themselves consider most muslims as heretics and kuffars.

[Godstud]

Probably zero.

I rest my case.

If Muslims, all over the world are so against ISIS, why is there so much Muslim support from them, and why don't the ME Muslim countries mobilize their combined 5 million man army to fight the 30,000 ISIS Muslims? Why don't all these Muslims who oppose ISIS actually do something about it?