[joeylyrics]

When people believe in things that can't possibly be possible OR proven... ignorance is inevitable.
The only way the conflicts and the wars can possibly end is if the TRUTH can finally come out and reality smacks EVERYONE in the damn face.
I believe that if there really was a God.. We ALL would be praising the same one and under ONE religion.
Different beliefs and theories had certainly stirred the hate pot through the course of time.
Since NO story has yet to be proven... NO story should ever be etched in stone.
To hate, kill and destroy in the name of any unproven religion... in my opinion.. is the sole reason to why religion was ultimately created in the first place and is now seemingly being used as another form of "Population Control".
Man had created God as equally as he did with the "Story" behind him as well as all the problems he caused for himself and for everyone else.
I just think it's a little strange how the Illuminati, the free masons, those secret society freaks AND the clergy all wear the same funny looking hats and funny looking robes and sport the same crooked, shady smiles.
Hmmm?
Kind of makes me wonder

[Zionist Nationalist]

Religion is just a tool to unite people and rule the uneducated masses

[joeylyrics]

Religion is just a tool to unite people and rule the uneducated masses

That's funny... I always thought it was a tool to "Divide" people and to cause hate, death and animosity.

[kobe]

Damn. You had me too, until the free masons and illumanti bit.

I believe that if there really was a God.. We ALL would be praising the same one and under ONE religion.

I don't think this statement is logically found. It does not follow that we would only have one religion just because there is one god.

[Heisenberg]

Wow, what a totally original thread, joeylyrics

I don't think this statement is logically found. It does not follow that we would only have one religion just because there is one god.

Indeed. Men are fallen, totally depraved beings, so it is no surprise that many of them would fall prey to idolatrous cults like Papism, Mohammedanism and professional football. Only through the perfect, unmerited Grace of the LORD can we be Regenerated and brought into His Kingdom.

[Zionist Nationalist]

That's funny... I always thought it was a tool to "Divide" people and to cause hate, death and animosity.

In modern days its mostly dividing but in ancient and medieval times religion was used to unite tribes and unorganized society that's how Judaism started

[kobe]

@Heisenberg: I didn't mean precisely that, but that is certainly plausible. I think deism is the most logically sound belief in one god, but it does not require that there be one religion.

I do, however, think the existence of many religions is strong evidence for the agnostic and atheist alike. After all they can't all be right. Furthermore, the theist disbelieves in every single other religion, thus making their position of logic rather tentative, since their adherence to a particular religion is usually arbitrary (place of birth, beliefs of family members, time period, beliefs of peers). Thus the theist is usually forced to argue from an arbitrary logical position, one which is accepted to be from a belief without evidence (faith).

I can only conclude that op is trying (and failing) to regurgitate this popular thought process, which I personally find to be a pretty decent idea. Not usually where I start, but when told properly it makes a lot of sense to me.

[joeylyrics]

Just exactly how many Gods and religious beliefs are there in this fairytale of a world we live in?
Seems to be far too many if you ask me.
That's why I believe in REALITY instead of unproven, made up babble.
I'd rather have a clear head and a clear conscience than be fooled into believing someone else's made up myths.

The Illuminati, the free masons and all them secret society freaks had not only created "God" themselves... but had written and rewritten the bible and all that outrageous crap that is in it and they're doing everything in their power to see it all come true.
My advice is... NEVER trust anyone who wears a funny looking hat and a funny looking robe who lures innocent children down to their secret hidden chambers in the cellars of their churches with their sickly sinful smiles and their evil, disturbing intentions.
The "Masses" that go to Mass had been easily tricked, fooled and manipulated into worshipping mans made up myths and falsified fables.
MOST people who feel they "NEED" to have a God in their lives simply does so because they believe that God will be the only thing out there that will forgive them all for all those disgusting and disturbing sins they just can't wait to go out and commit.
Fairytale stories are for children and should've never been taken seriously by ANY adult EVER.

There is far more proof of alien beings and visitations from other planets then there is of a make believe guy in the sky.
Ancient cave drawings show in detail visiting life forms that aren't of human descent and have been around long before them Mayans.  
For all we really know... them aliens could've gave those stupid caveman more intelligence and further knowledge that better helped them to adapt and prosper.
It does kind of explain how us humans are the most intelligent out of all other life forms.
But... in all actuality... no one really knows for sure.
And with that being said... NO ONE should set ANY story in stone OR kill any innocent person in the name of any unproven religion PERIOD.
It is quite amazing though how quickly we advanced our technology since the Roswell incident.
The facts behind that shouldn't be left out either

[fuser]

I do, however, think the existence of many religions is strong evidence for the agnostic and atheist alike. After all they can't all be right.

Hardly. You are speaking from a restricted abrahmic pov. This problem can easily be mitigated by a simple analogy i.e. humans are looking for same truth/god but using different ways/religion just like when we have to go to a destination we may use different mode of transportation or different route but we are going the same place. Idiots can shout that their mode, route is the only way or the perfect way but in the end it really depends on the traveller.

These simple arguments can never bring religions on their knees.

[joeylyrics]

[quote="Heisenberg"]Wow, what a totally original thread, joeylyrics :|


Must be to have not only caught your attention... but to have you also comment on it as well.
So glad I beat you to it;/)

[kobe]

Well, I agree that it's a simple argument and not a good starting point for debate. However, if we consider it as a point of evidence it clearly favors the atheist/agnostic more than the theist, regardless of the fact that the significance of the evidence does not sway the debate on its own.

Having said that, you should look at the world religions. A majority of the world is monotheist, does believe in one true religion (themselves holding that mantel of course), thus should be held by this logical standard. I understand that's not the way it works in every religion, but even that is debatable. Whatever we are arguing about, we must remember that each person holds their own fundamental beliefs about the world, and thus does believe in one "true" way, whether that be subjective or not. Thus it is fair to ask why they arbitrarily chose the religion they did. The weakness of the logic in choosing any religion at all is evident. One can only choose a religion based on faith, not evidence. You believe something even though it cannot be proven so, no matter what your religious beliefs are.

I know you are trying to relate this back to a universal truths argument, but that is only another piece of fruit from the poison tree (faith). You cannot prove the existence of a universal principle, universal mechanism, universal truth, whatever you want to call it. You only believe it is there and base your faith, which again is a belief not based on evidence, which is certainly not shared by everyone.

[joeylyrics]

Man has ben around for hundreds of thousands of years if not millions and the earth has been around for BILLIONS.
That is a true fact that not even the Bible believes in.
Since man has been around so long and studied his own species for just as long... it is only obvious that Man was able to calculate his own destruction and demise after man learned how to become selfish, greedy, careless, manipulative and deceitful.
There are far too many "Stories" going around as well as there are people "pretending" to be peaceful and friendly and I "Trust" and "Believe" none of them.
Those "pyramids" that are in Egypt which is just a hop and a skip from "Israel (and not too far from that little town of Bethlehem) that not even us modern men with all of our modern, high tech machinery could even duplicate today are REALLY where all the explanations and answers lie but that story of "Jesus" keeps EVERYONE'S thoughts and eyes away from that real truth and he who hides the truth is certainly no friend of mine.

Those Mayans predicted the modern man would kill themselves off by 2012.
They were pretty much right on the money as Armageddon is now knocking at our door.
(Again)... If however there WAS a God..
I strongly believe we would all be praising the same one and under ONE religion.
The whole entire world would recognize him as being the same just like they do with the color blue and the number 2.
Sorry if my outlook upsets you or anyone else... but I'm not as easily tricked, fooled or manipulated like mostly everyone else apparently is.
Reality is my motto and Fairytale stories are and will always be meant for children and should've never been taken seriously by Adults EVER.
In my opinion... when Gods and religious beliefs cause more hate, death, animosity and war than it does peace... I know that I as well as the rest of the world would be much better off without them and Everyone else should come to realize it too.

Reality is the most powerful thing in the world and it separates the facts from the fiction.
Denial is a disease that only ends up eating away at your body, mind and soul.
Kind of explains why all them religious nuts are the way they are.
He who can easily outweigh the good from the bad, the right from the wrong and the facts from the fables should be the ones left in charge of shipping this way out of control world back into shape.
If not... "Checkmate" is inevitable for us ALL.
Them Mayans knew it long ago and tried to warn the modern man.
Sadly... the insights that were passed down to us were either altered to accommodate with the changing times or swept under the rug so man could continue his evil ways.
That greedy and selfish way of thinking is what led us to where we all are at now and the ones who run the show would much rather kill us all off (including themselves) then to come out and admit that they've long been lying, stealing and deceiving us all for centuries.
There's the proof.
All people need to do now is be Man enough to believe it or history will keep repeating itself until it destroys itself

[Heisenberg]

I didn't mean precisely that, but that is certainly plausible.

Ha, I was just doing my usual hyper-Calvinist piss-take.

[Otebo]

Man has ben around for hundreds of thousands of years if not millions and the earth has been around for BILLIONS.
That is a true fact that not even the Bible believes in.

Oh, please do elaborate.

Saint Augustine and Father Lemaître would love to hear more.

[joeylyrics]

Not to burst your bubble Otebo... but man created God just like he did with the story behind him as well as all the problems he created for himself and for everyone else.
I may not know EVERYTHING... but here's something I do know for sure...
Whether humans A) evolved from previous life forms B) was made out of sand or C) fell out of the damn sky... they had to have created a language first and WAY BEFORE they invented ANY of their bullshit stories.
Speculation is NOT proof and  calculations are usually always far from accurate.
Scientists DO NOT have all the facts and answers and they NEVER WILL.
It does seem though that scientists are good for making bombs, creating viruses and playing both God (hypothetically speaking) AND Mother Nature all at the same time.
In other words... if natural occurrences don't wipe us out... my guess is the well paid Mad Scientists and all their friction causing theories will.

I, however... would much rather believe we evolved from the dinosaurs (which were only here for millions of years AND millions upon millions of years ago) since there IS proof that they existed and way before I fall for some far fetched story about some magical guy in the sky who made the first man out of sand and a woman out of his rib and then "Adam and Eve" populated a world full of different people with different colors and different ethnic backgrounds when all of that never could have ever been achieved from incest alone.
Sorry... but that story never held any water to me EVER and it NEVER will.
Those who are foolish enough to believe it are also foolish enough to believe in the rest of the Bible's babble and all those other fairytale fables that are in it.

[Drlee]

Just exactly how many Gods and religious beliefs are there in this fairytale of a world we live in?

84.

Seems to be far too many if you ask me.

I think it is just right. If we had fewer we would have to build much bigger churches and if we had more, well, you know.

That's why I believe in REALITY instead of unproven, made up babble.

You mean like the Illuminati?

I'd rather have a clear head and a clear conscience than be fooled into believing someone else's made up myths.

We would rather you did too.

The Illuminati, the free masons and all them secret society freaks had not only created "God" themselves... but had written and rewritten the bible and all that outrageous crap that is in it and they're doing everything in their power to see it all come true.

Those.....those secret society freaks.....

My advice is... NEVER trust anyone who wears a funny looking hat.

Me too.

In other words... if natural occurrences don't wipe us out... my guess is the well paid Mad Scientists and all their friction causing theories will.

The thought of friction as a theory rubs me the wrong way.

I, however... would much rather believe we evolved from the dinosaurs

You are not alone.

[anticlimacus]

That's why I believe in REALITY instead of unproven, made up babble.

"Reality" does not present itself. It is an abstraction. All we have are phenomenon that presents itself to us. How this gets organized into a coherent set of knowledge and eventually as a "world" is up to our own mental constructions. Hence there are thousands if not millions of different variations on what constitutes "reality"--all they are all generally culturally relative.

[Nattering Nabob]

Religion... could it be just a hoax?

It is an allegory which, if taken literally and put into practice as if it were literal, leads to enlightenment or as the Christians term it "illumination"...

Kind of like hearing someone say, "there is a great treasure on top of that mountain for anyone who climbs it and takes it", and finding yourself changed from a fat, flabby, heart attack victim into a lean, healthy, athlete upon reaching the summit...

[Noelnada]

That's a good metaphor Nattering Nabob.

I don't see what's wrong in the belief that there is an eternal, conscious, ubiquitous and loving force ruling all that there is.

For me it's not a belief, it's a certainty.

Does that makes me a better person ?

I don't think so, but i really wish i'm enclined to be a better person day after day and sometimes i try really hard.

Yes i need hope, i need love, i need courage when i walk into the valley of death...

Psalm 23

The Lord is my shepherd, I lack nothing.

He makes me lie down in green pastures,
he leads me beside quiet waters,

he refreshes my soul.
He guides me along the right paths
for his name’s sake.

Even though I walk
through the darkest valley,
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.

You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.

Surely your goodness and love will follow me
all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the house of the Lord
forever.

[Nets]

I don't see what's wrong in the belief that there is an eternal, conscious, ubiquitous and loving force ruling all that there is.

For me it's not a belief, it's a certainty.

Why?