[Iron Ant]

So let's think about this for a teensy tiny bit.

When you apply a little bit of reason, you come to realize that there will not be many people in heaven.

Why?

While Christianity is a large group around the world, numbering roughly around one billion, well, how many of these people are true believers and practitioners?

It seems to that, most people in this group are actually not true believers, they are just basically telling people what they want to hear to avoid needless drama of upsetting some people over being different than them.

So, when you realize this, then it does stem to a tiny bit of reason, that actually only a small amount of believers will be judged by God as being true believers.

i don't know how to figure out the actual math for the accurate numbers, so I am purposefully speaking gin general terms.

But, if only a small percentage of all who claim to be Christians are true Christians, then that means there will be only a small amount of people that will number in the millions.

And it is a small number when you realize that there is over 7 billion people on this planet.

And I am not the one who is judging who will be determined a true Christian, there is only one being that cna do that, and that being is God. IF he truly exists.

So that means over six billion people will be burning in hell for all eternity simply for not believing in God.

Not a very nice thought to think about it.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

Another example that comes to mind prominently are Jehovah's Witnesses who believe only 144,000 will be permitted into heaven. It's silly but it does no good to worry or care about anyone's fairy tales. There is a Filipino church nearby which believes only those who are members of their church (a small one) go to heaven, then there's that gay-obsessed Westboro Baptist church comprising less than 200 members or so who believe they alone will be in heaven. I suppose the point is can you imagine any word other than "trapped" to describe being stuck with humorless, soulless squares for eternity?

[GirdYourLoins]

For those who don't believe in Heaven, there is no point in spending even a moment speculating on the ultimate fate of the believers whom you see as rubes. As for the ones who do believe in Heaven, whether they get in or not is between them and God, and none of our business.

[mikema63]

Speculation amuses me in my off time.

[Prosthetic Conscience]

It seems to that, most people in this group are actually not true believers, they are just basically telling people what they want to hear to avoid needless drama of upsetting some people over being different than them.
...
And I am not the one who is judging who will be determined a true Christian, there is only one being that cna do that, and that being is God. IF he truly exists.

So that means over six billion people will be burning in hell for all eternity simply for not believing in God.

There's a flaw there - you are the one judging who is a true Christian. Well, you are if the missing word in the first sentence I quoted was 'me', as in 'it seems to me that, ...'.

What your post is saying is that, in your opinion, most people who call themselves Christian aren't really Christian, and therefore they won't get into heaven. But that is nothing more than your opinion, and there was no 'reason' involved in it at all.

[fuser]

Only members of SN-RF are going to heaven, rest of heathens? Not.

[Potemkin]

Only I and my pet tortoise are going to get into Heaven. God told me so himself. Well, okay, it was my tortoise who told me, but I'm pretty sure it was actually God speaking through him.

[Iron Ant]

There's a flaw there - you are the one judging who is a true Christian. Well, you are if the missing word in the first sentence I quoted was 'me', as in 'it seems to me that, ...'.

What your post is saying is that, in your opinion, most people who call themselves Christian aren't really Christian, and therefore they won't get into heaven. But that is nothing more than your opinion, and there was no 'reason' involved in it at all.

It is not a judgement, it is a fact.

It's the same of many groups, religious or not. There will always be some of the people within the group who are just parroting the narrative of their group.

And you are just picking nits to be argumentative.

[Prosthetic Conscience]

It is not a judgement, it is a fact.

It's the same of many groups, religious or not. There will always be some of the people within the group who are just parroting the narrative of their group.

And you are just picking nits to be argumentative.

Your assertion wasn't that there are 'some' Christians who won't get into heaven; it's that 'not many' will. It's not just 'picking nits'; it's pointing out your entire premise is just your own claim, without evidence, rather than the 'fact' you claim it is.

Only I and my pet tortoise are going to get into Heaven. God told me so himself. Well, okay, it was my tortoise who told me, but I'm pretty sure it was actually God speaking through him.

Is that you, Brutha?

[Potemkin]

Is that you, Brutha?

I can neither confirm nor deny that assertion.

[Drlee]

Iron Ant is just exhibiting a pathetic lack of understanding of his subject. His premise is laughable.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

Iron Ant is just exhibiting a pathetic lack of understanding of his subject. His premise is laughable.

His is not a premise, it is a fact; he said so.

Drlee out of curiosity are you nondenominational?

[Iron Ant]

Yep it's all the same no matter where you go.

[noemon]

Once they lose customers the doorman will become more relaxed.

[Drlee]

Drlee out of curiosity are you nondenominational?

Raised Methodist. Attended Catholic and Episcopalian (Catholic light) churches for quite awhile. Now involved in very liberal social ministry dedicated to helping the poor and homeless. Our "workship" services do not feature any religious themes/public prayer at all other than the poor and homeless we help sort of know we are a church. One of my fellow medicos wears a roman collar and performs a same-sex or 'homeless' marriage every now and then. We do not accept money donations but if someone wants to bring sox or medicine we are happy to take it. I work in the clinic and treat dozens of people every week. We feed them, (about 250 people every week) clothe them and take care of their medical needs to the extent that we can. We offer them veterinary services once a month for their animals and bring in folks who can get them access to government and private programs to help them. But no money. If you throw a $100.00 bill on the ground someone will pick it up but it won't be one of us.

In my opinion this is Christianity at its best. Young people love it. It doesn't matter what denomination you are as long as you can take a blood pressure, hand out donated clothing, run the showers or work in the kitchen. On the medical side, if you are a doctor then you do that, if you are a nurse you do that, if you are a paramedic....whatever... you do what is appropriate to your level of expertise. There is rarely a week that goes by that we do not nip a life threatening illness in the bud. If you have no medical experience we will teach you to do stuff. If you don't want to do any of the above you can just sit and chat with the homeless folks. You have no idea how important that is too.

When you are homeless you are susceptible for all manner of illnesses that are not common to people who are housed. Little cuts and scrapes become big deals when, due to a forced lack of hygiene, they become badly infected. The average person does not even imagine a little cut finger to be a problem but if you can't wash it and put a Band-Aid on it, very quickly your owie can become a life-threatening cellulitis. Add to this already depressed immune systems, Hep-C, HIV and a myriad of other issues and small things become big ones. So we treat their ills, give people comfort, clothe them, offer them showers, advice, a hot meal and a sack lunch to go and you have what is, in my opinion, the very model of Christian love. Young people love it. It is their kind of church. People keep coming back and even when they don't they leave changed in their opinion about homelessness and changed in their opinion of what Christianity is about.

So we have yet another dipshit troll talking trash about what we Christians all believe. Who knows. Probably another besotted college student who just read Inherit the Wind and if feeling iconoclastic and oh-so smart. But just in case he really wants to know what a great many (and growing) number of Christians believe about getting into heaven, here it is:

32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

I don't know what our OP believes and frankly I could not care less. I have chosen what I am going to take on faith and find my life MUCH richer for it. If, in the end, I am wrong, then I have lived a life of filled with hope instead of grim resignation to an inevitable and meaningless nothingness. And I have lost nothing. If a hopeless future is the cost of being "smart" in his eyes, it is a price I am unwilling to pay. Give me my faith and hope that leads me and others to the important and rewarding work it inspires any day. Fuck death and nothingness. I choose not to believe in it. Since none of us really knows what lies beyond the grave then I wonder which of us is the wiser? The hopeful or the hopeless?

Now if the OP is truly interested in learning then I am happy to help him learn. He can PM me. If he wants to throw shit balls, bring it on. Christian ≠ wimp.

[Otebo]

So that means over six billion people will be burning in hell for all eternity simply for not believing in God.

The vast majority of people on this planet believe in the Almighty in some form or another. They may have been led astray from the Truth, or never indeed have properely been given the chance to recieve it, but that in itself does not condemn a soul to hell.

The non-Christian may not be blamed for his ignorance of Christ and his Church; salvation is open to him also, if he seeks God sincerely and if he follows the commands of his conscience, for through this means the Holy Ghost acts upon all men; this divine action is not confined within the limited boundaries of the visible Church

"Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience -- those too may achieve eternal salvation."

While Christianity is a large group around the world, numbering roughly around one billion, well, how many of these people are true believers and practitioners?

Only God himself can know that, certainly not you. So you conclusion that the number is tiny has no credibility.

No Christian is perfect, they all have doubts at some stage in their life, many of them will have denied Christ at some stage, they have all committed countless wrongs. Who ever said it would be different? That does not close Heaven to anybody in itself.

All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned

[Decky]

It's a shame the Prods got their claws into you DrLee, you could have been a good Catholic.

Fucking hell Otebo long time no see.

[Drlee]

It's a shame the Prods got their claws into you DrLee, you could have been a good Catholic.

I very nearly was a Catholic. If I had to choose only one church it would be that one. I still spend a few moments, from time to time, in the sanctuary of a convenient Catholic church.

Fucking hell Otebo long time no see.

Great post Otebo.

[Decky]

It's never too late to repent.

[Frollein]

Only I and my pet tortoise are going to get into Heaven. God told me so himself. Well, okay, it was my tortoise who told me, but I'm pretty sure it was actually God speaking through him.

Does he call himself Om and has an irrational fear of eagles?